New Year Res for Church

[Surfah]

Tick you left us hanging.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Tick you left us hanging.

Agreed. I apologize for derailing the discussion.

[Moliere]

Tick you left us hanging.

Maybe he is still meeting with the bishop.

[The_Tick]

I have contemplated over the last few days how to type this up, and not sure if I should or not.

I will though, as I value most of you as friends, and because sometimes putting it down on "paper" is a benefit to me.

In September when one of my YM suffered a life changing accident, I jumped into action and helped out the family as I always do. I love to serve.

In serving, I ran by the Bishop's house and dropped a few things off from this YM's family. In doing so, I made a comment to the bishop about struggling with my faith (kinda off the cuff, didn't really mean anything by it) and that doing this type of service for people was my way of fighting through it. He didn't say anything and I didn't think anything about it.

During TS last month he asked me how my faith was. I told him I had found a spot where I was okay with myself. I have come to a realization that "my personal beliefs, and that of the standard everyday LDS person probably aren't ever going to align. But I have found a way to make it work for me."

I was honest and I was truthful.
****************

So Sunday rolls around and I visit with the Bishop for about 1.5 hours. He tells me that I have weighed heavily (not a fat joke) on his heart/mind since my comments in September and he has been worried about me. He finally had some time and felt that it was time for him to see if I would come in and talk about it.

My Bishop is a good man, and I consider him a friend. When no one else in the ward would volunteer to help with the 50 miler for the Cycling merit badge, he did. We have ridden and talked often. We sometimes shoot hoops together. We are texting buddies. TK2 babysits for his kids.

So I spent the good portion at the start sitting and listening to what he had to say about me and the service I have done in the ward. He expressed some concern for my well being, and reiterated how many of the YM in the ward consider me their friend and look to me as an example. He also mentioned that those same YM have had parents comment to the Bishop that I was the best YM President they had had. (Not trying to boast, just sharing his POV)

So then he asked me to talk about what was bothering me...

Where to start.

I was completely honest with him... I wasn't brash and I wasn't mean. I felt genuine love from him and I felt the spirit present while we talked.

I have issues with the Church not being completely honest about its past.
I have issues with the Church and their stance regarding homosexuality. (More specifically how Prop. 8 was handled in our Stake and how I was treated by some of the local leaders)
I have issues with the Stake Presidency. (His FIL is the SP, and I laid out my issues there.)
I don't have the same confirmation about President Monson that I had about President Hinckley. I wept when President Hinckley passed and while watching his funeral. I don't get the slightest bit of anything from President Monson, and Elder Packer completely gives me the heebs.

I went into greater detail on each of those items, and some of that isn't appropriate for here.

I expressed frustration that there isn't a person for me to talk to, or a place for me to find answers. Anytime I talk to someone about this I am told "have faith and read your scripture and say your prayers". But you can only hear that so often before it becomes a little demeaning.

I can't bring this stuff up in GD because some folks are too young in the gospel and couldn't handle it. And folks that are hardliners wont have anyone think any differently than them.

There just isn't anyone or anywhere to turn.

I wept while talking to him, and he wept while listening. The spirit was extremely strong.

He is afraid of losing me and my family. I assured him that as of this time there isn't that concern. I am at peace with where I am at in the gospel. I don't have answers to 90% of my questions, but I go almost every Sunday because it is where I feel I belong. I don't get much in Sac. Mtg. but I enjoy my SS class and EQ has been really good as of late.

Some folks can't handle having these issues and quit going. I am not one of those folks. I don't need to know. I just know I am a better person for going.

I told him that there were two reasons that I was hesitant to share any of these things with him:

1. I live to serve. I don't want to lose my calling in the EQP and my SS team teaching assignment with my wife.
2. I don't feel like I am broken and need to be fixed. I think that I am okay with where I am at at this time.

I know that with my sharing this info with him was probably a game ender for me in having any other "heavy lifting" type of calling in the ward, and that is maybe okay and too bad at the same time. Service is the main reason that I go.

I do have a testimony of the BoM, and of the Priesthood. I know that Christ lives and has done many wonderful things. I still don't have a great understanding of the Atonement, and am working on trying to figure that out. I just hope that his grace will be sufficient when my weakness fail me.

It was good.

He wants to see me again in 3 months and has challenged me on my scripture reading and personal prayers. Challenges that I accepted. But I did remind him that he is going to have to set up the appointment, as I feel his time is better served being home with his 3 year old and 2 year old children and not worried about me.

I offered to give him my temple recommend, but he didn't feel like he needed to take it. (I didn't do that as a show of bravado, but because of the comments I made in regards to President Monson)

[Jacob]

I do have a testimony of the BoM, and of the Priesthood. I know that Christ lives and has done many wonderful things. I still don't have a great understanding of the Atonement, and am working on trying to figure that out. I just hope that his grace will be sufficient when my weakness fail me.

Based on this statement alone, I don't see why you would be in jeopardy of losing TR. Based on your honesty and what you posted, if I were your bishop, I would probably have gained a lot of respect for you and the strength of your faith rather than the other way around.

This part I found sad, but very true, and I feel the same way.

I expressed frustration that there isn't a person for me to talk to, or a place for me to find answers. Anytime I talk to someone about this I am told "have faith and read your scripture and say your prayers". But you can only hear that so often before it becomes a little demeaning.

I can't bring this stuff up in GD because some folks are too young in the gospel and couldn't handle it. And folks that are hardliners wont have anyone think any differently than them.

There just isn't anyone or anywhere to turn.

It seems that there would be a lot more room for such sentiments within the Catholic, Jewish or other faith traditions like many christian sects where the poijnts of doctrine are more limited to believing in Christ and parts of the bibile. Can anyone discuss from real experience?

It seems that your meeting went well, and you are fortunate to have a good bishop--provided he doesn't restrict your service opportunities, etc. Being able to discuss it with him openly and without judgement seems like it would be a bit of a relief. Perhaps you now have someone to turn to. I hope you the best as you press forward.

[The_Tick]

Based on this statement alone, I don't see why you would be in jeopardy of losing TR. Based on your honesty and what you posted, if I were your bishop, I would probably have gained a lot of respect for you and the strength of your faith rather than the other way around.

There are times when I have felt that maybe I shouldn't be holding one because of the questions/doubts that I have. I figured that as the Bishop I was going to give him the chance to help me out.

It seems that your meeting went well, and you are fortunate to have a good bishop--provided he doesn't restrict your service opportunities, etc. Being able to discuss it with him openly and without judgement seems like it would be a bit of a relief. Perhaps you now have someone to turn to. I hope you the best as you press forward.

I sure hope not. If I had to give up one of the two, I would rather keep the SS calling as I dig the New Testament this year, and the kids are freaking oustanding.

Part of the meeting that I forgot to mention had to do with "truth and honesty". I told him I would be honest and true with him, but sometimes it doesn't end well. I said "For a Church that has a TR question about being honest, we don't do very well with honesty. We are too worried about hurting feelings when sometimes honesty is needed."

So it really helped the discussion knowing that I wasn't hiding anything.

[Moliere]

2. I don't feel like I am broken and need to be fixed. I think that I am okay with where I am at at this time.

Thanks for the follow up post. This part ^^^^^ is my favorite. Hopefully he agreed.

I could only imagine that you would still qualify for a "heavy lifting" calling. You obviously have a testimony. I share some similar thoughts in comparing GBH to TSM but when I look back on it GBH was my prophet. I grew up with him and he resonated with me. I'm not the biggest fan of everything GBH did or said, but I clicked with him. GBH also was very well polished in PR, which helped in his relationship with others over the airwaves.

I think a lot of people felt the same way with David O McKay. I know my mom always claims him as her favorite prophet.

In short, I put more stock in my relationship with Christ than I do with my distant relationship with the current prophet. It sounds like you do the same thing.

[LiveCoug]

Thanks for sharing Tick.

In my mind, God isn't asking us to have a perfect understanding. There are lots of things that we don't/won't know. I think he wants us to do the best we can and that's good enough. We aren't perfect. We have questions about the past and the present (in regards to the church). Temple blessings are there to do just that, bless us. We don't have to have 100% perfection in all aspects of our lifes in order to be TR holders. Obviously there are some very specific things we need to be doing (Tithing, LOC, WOW), but everything else, we just need to try our best.

Based on what you said, no way should you be without your TR and I think your Bishop is smart in recognizing that.

[Surfah]

Tick, thanks for the follow up. Sounds like you have a good Bishop.

[Green Monstah]

I have found that there are many, many people who either appear to be hardliners, or ultra-orthodox, but who have the same questions and issues that you express, andare very reluctant to express views that may be deemed "heterodox" by some. I was in a ward in Phoenix where I was an active participant in GD class and shared unorthodox viewpoints. The SP's wife was in the ward and made it a point to criticize my comments to make sure that the class knew what the "doctrine" was. At the time, I really felt that the entire ward hated my comments and participation so I stopped participating (in fact, before I was called as GD teacher, I didn't attend SS for about 5 years). Lo and behold, I had several people since that time who have told me how much they enjoyed my comments, which led to further discussion on where we stood regarding the Church (very similar positions). At any rate, the point of this novel is that there are people like you all around you, but their voices are muted, or voluntarily silenced, by the vocal hardliners.

I understand that feeling of isolation, however. It's not always easy. I think you have an extremely level-headed and commendable approach to all of this.

I actually had a similar discussion with my bishop about 18 mos. ago, but everything I said, he'd say, "I don't think you really believe that. I think you really have a testimony of that." Steamrolled.

[Sullyute]

I have contemplated over the last few days how to type this up, and not sure if I should or not...

Tick, Thanks for sharing. You are one of the most open and honest posters here. It definitely helps me to see others fighting through similar issues and doubts. Your bishop sounds like he truly cares about you and your family, which is a very good thing. Thanks again.

[The_Tick]

Lo and behold, I had several people since that time who have told me how much they enjoyed my comments, which led to further discussion on where we stood regarding the Church (very similar positions).

I actually had a similar discussion with my bishop about 18 mos. ago, but everything I said, he'd say, "I don't think you really believe that. I think you really have a testimony of that." Steamrolled.

That part that you bolded...

My Bishop said that he has had a similar conversation regarding some of the same issues I have with about 5 different ward members in the last few months. They weren't as candid as I was though.

Bishop was very good about not steamrolling. He did go with the "search, ponder and pray" but as he even admitted "I don't have answers to your questions, and I am not sure who would. But I feel like I have to tell you something. "

[Pheidippides]

Tick, I hesitate to share this because I don't want to threadjack, but you should know that you (and your experience) have been very helpful to me.

Sunday I decided to call it quits. I was done, for all the reasons you mentioned. I was planning on going on a long drive to figure out how to redo my life but instead ended up going to church out of a sense of duty (who else would teach my class?) and had a good experience. Since then, I've been quite contemplative of my almost-decision.

Reading what you have to say is incredibly helpful because I feel less alone than I did on Sunday, and, what's more, somebody I respect for his honesty has made the same decision I did. In what has been a time of struggle for me, I appreciate your (dare I say it) example. Text me when and if you need, for you are not alone either.

[The_Tick]

Tick, Thanks for sharing. You are one of the most open and honest posters here. It definitely helps me to see others fighting through similar issues and doubts. Your bishop sounds like he truly cares about you and your family, which is a very good thing. Thanks again.

Thanks for that.

I think CUF has been a great benefit for me personally. It has taught me a few things:

1. I am not alone.
2. If I am struggling, don't struggle alone.
3. If you don't do something now, you could regret it later.
4. Don't give Art Vandalay a stroke a hole. He is a cheater.

[Non Sequitur]

Don't give Art Vandalay a stroke a hole.

TMI.