New Year Res for Church

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'm still struggling to get to the "I believe in the church" level. So I usually just hedge the entire thing by saying that I don't even know what people mean when they ask if the church is true.

It's an odd figure of speech. How can an institution be true? Is Wal-Mart true? What about the US Geological Survey?

I have noted that you rarely hear that expression when a GA bears testimony. In fact, since I started keeping track, I don't recall hearing it once at GC.

[Indy Coug]

It's an odd figure of speech. How can an institution be true?

Whichever one gets the official Seal of Approval from God.

[Pheidippides]

It's an odd figure of speech. How can an institution be true? Is Wal-Mart true? What about the US Geological Survey?

I have noted that you rarely hear that expression when a GA bears testimony. In fact, since I started keeping track, I don't recall hearing it once at GC.

Precisely. I understand it in the context of a statement (e.g., what he said was true) when you are saying something is factual. I also understand it when you are saying a person is true to his or her principles. I guess I kind of understand it in reference to the BOM - but in that case, what exactly is true? I think that the book allows for non-truth factually on its own terms - Mormon is copying all this down hundreds of years later, and also refers to mistakes and errors. The doctrine itself?

It's just plain silly in reference to an institution.

I think you'd probably agree with me that the testimony constructs are even more ridiculous in Japanese. I actual did some research on this very topic, to tell you the truth, and it was going to form the foundation of a masters thesis if I chose that route.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Whichever one gets the official Seal of Approval from God.

So the Boy Scouts of America™ is true? You had better change your attitude on scouting, amigo.

[Jacob]

I have noted that you rarely hear that expression when a GA bears testimony. In fact, since I started keeping track, I don't recall hearing it once at GC.

That would surprise me. We certainly hear that this is "the Lord's Chruch" or "the true Church" in GC. Or I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. Is there much of a difference between "this is the true Church" and "this Church is true?"

I agree with the sentiment that "I know this church is true" is not a good phrase. I'm not a fan. Yet, it seems fairly easy to know what is meant by such a statement.

Here are a few GC quotes with the phrase:

“Which of all the churches is true, and which should I join?”

That was BKP quoting JS, discussing our foundational claim--1985.

I wish that each of you would remember that tonight you heard me say that this Church is true. --GBH 1996

This restored Church is true--Bednar 2010

HB Eyring title his 2008 talk: The True and Living Churcn -- obviously taken from the D&C.

There was no way that I could deny that this Church is true --Monson '99

and Joseph Smith’s is to know which church is true.--Jay Jensen 2010

some very good people have been confident that the Church could not be true --Cook 2009

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree with the sentiment that "I know this church is true" is not a good phrase. I'm not a fan. Yet, it seems fairly easy to know what is meant by such a statement.

That's what I was referring to.

[LA Ute]

I know that CUF is the true message board.

[Indy Coug]

I know that CUF is the true message board.

I was just overwhelmed by a mighty stupor of thought.

[TheAzzuri]

Funny that my two favorite posts come from the same thread. Thanks to both Tick and Nikuman for sharing.

Tick, while not identical, your post articulated a lot of my own thoughts very well.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I just went back and read all of the posts in this thread that I missed from yesterday. Some great comments.

Tick, I admire you very much. Your honesty and dedication to service are a great example.

[Green Monstah]

It's an odd figure of speech. How can an institution be true? Is Wal-Mart true? What about the US Geological Survey?

I have noted that you rarely hear that expression when a GA bears testimony. In fact, since I started keeping track, I don't recall hearing it once at GC.

I think what people are really saying is "I [believe wholeheartedly] that the [gospel] is true." Agreed it's an odd phrase.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think what people are really saying is "I [believe wholeheartedly] that the [gospel] is true." Agreed it's an odd phrase.

Yeah, the meaning is clear and it doesn't bother me that much. Just another of our many quirks.

[UtahDan]

EDIT: I put a post here not having actually read the whole thread and particularly the follow up by Tick. It was completely out of place so I'm removing it.

[Indy Coug]

This thread would be more interesting if it was about what people think the Church's new years resolutions should be. Here are a couple of mine:

I'm not sure why presuming to tell the church what their New Year Resolutions should be is more interesting than enumerating personal resolutions.

[UtahDan]

I'm not sure why presuming to tell the church what their New Year Resolutions should be is more interesting than enumerating personal resolutions.

Equally interesting then?