Your thoughts on church leaders

[cowboy]

I'd make this a poll, but I kind of suck at making polls, so I'm just going to ask the question: How inspired to believe the leaders of the Church are?

Church leadership gets ripped on quite a bit here, which is just the culture of CUF, but I wonder about people's opinion of the brethren as whole. Setting specific issues aside, do you consider the general authorities to be inspired? What about local leaders like bishops and stake presidents?

Undoubtedly, there are is a full spectrum of opinions here. I doubt many here believe even the prophet to be infallible, which seems logical given our belief in agency, but I suspect that a plurality of CUFers believe that church leaders are at least somewhat inspired. The question I have for you, is how inspired do you think they are?

If our leaders are fallible, what mistakes will the Lord allow them to make, and what mistakes will lead to their removal, one way or another? If you disagree with their counsel, how do you deal with it, and how do you ultimately decide who is right? Perhaps most importantly, what do you teach your kids about following our leaders?

That's a lot of questions, and some of them are kind of personal, but I'm curious, and though I think I know where most people stand I'm most likely wrong about at least a few and maybe many of you.

[Sullyute]

I'd make this a poll, but I kind of suck at making polls, so I'm just going to ask the question: How inspired to believe the leaders of the Church are?

Setting specific issues aside, do you consider the general authorities to be inspired? What about local leaders like bishops and stake presidents?

I am not sure if I should answer this right now as this is one of the areas that I am struggling with. I definitely feel that leaders of the Church can be inspired. Are the "brethern" more inspired than local leaders? I don't know. They have more time to spend trying to get inspired as this is their full time job. Just like government, I think that local leaders inspiration/decisions are going to have a larger inpact on me than someone's inspiration/decision farther up the chain.

I remember reading in the book "Salamander", that Steven Christensen got up in front of his congregation as bishop and said that half of the callings he had made were desperation (my word) and not inspiration and if anyone wanted to be released to come talk to him. I thought that was pretty bold.

I think that anyone can receive as much or more inspiration for their own lives and that they shouldn't let a leaders "inspiration" trump what they feel or know is right. So I guess that I wished that I beleived that church leaders decisions were a little more inspired and that others believed they were a little less.

[grapevine]

I hear this about Stake Presidents. The GA and AA never been there before and don't know anyone. Interview all the Bishops, High Councilman and former ones several. Get inspiration in 10 minutes.

Inspired. Thing is no one asks for positions in the church and they seek the welfare of the people called to preside over you. What makes someone more spiritually mature than people they are called to preside over?

[LogMafia]

I think for the most part they are good men trying to do their best, but I don't think that having a calling gives you any special powers or abilities.

[Viking]

I think the lay clergy is generally very well-intentioned and probably exceeds expectations, on avg.

I'm less certain about the "lifers"/career clergy

[Spicy McHaggis]

I believe they talk to God but I do not believe God talks to them. When I look at the product objectively, I have a difficult time believing God is really in charge or that God micro-manages the LDS church.

One example is the $3-4B spent on a mall when there are 30,000 children starving to death every day tells me that God isn't speaking to any men in downtown SLC.

[wuapinmon]

It depends on the person. I have shared my story before about my bishop promising me in the "name of Jesus Christ, and by the power of the priesthood" that he held as my bishop that if I went on my mission before going to college that my mom would get baptized during my "mortal life."

He was inspired, and it did happen. I felt the Spirit so strong in the MTC with Elder John Fowler of the 2nd Q of the 70 spoke that I actually had a burning in my bosom and felt like I was at total peace with God for the entire evening.

Elder Packer's talk in General Conference was patently offensive and were the opinions of an old man, and I do not believe that he spoke for the Lord.

Do I sustain him as a prophet, seer, and revelator? Sure. I don't revere those words the way I did when I was younger. Playing with words and their meaning allows a certain flexibility in their interpretation, also. So, do I think that Pres. Monson is a prophet? Yes. Do I think he can speak face to face with God? Ummmm, if it were necessary.

I think that, like David O. McKay, the prophet has to listen for the still small voice just like I do, or should do. Do I believe that he's ever walked with God? No. But, I don't not believe it either.

Do I believe that the Book of Mormon is an inspired document and that Joseph Smith saw God and was a prophet? Yes, but who knows what the hell Joseph Smith was thinking sometimes.

We've gone from a dynamic prophet who could query God about the meaning of verses in the Bible and get revelations, to ones who serve on committees and don't pronounce on anything other than policy and standard stuff. We're not Catholics; we're not Muslims. We don't believe that the heavens are closed and that there is an end to prophecy. I want the Lord to liveth. I want something new. Since I joined this church, since I got baptized, I've been waiting for something to come down from On High. I've been waiting for a prophecy; something succinct and unmistakable.

I sit and wait and wonder why I do what I do and what the hell is going on, but when I read the Book of Mormon, I feel something that I don't get anywhere else. It's a boring read, honestly, but the Spirit works through it, and the hell if I haven't given so much of my life and my talents and my earnings to the Church, all because of the Book of Mormon.

Do I care if Boyd Packer is a prophet, seer, and revelator? No, I used to, but now, I just worry about being like Jesus Christ, pure love incarnate. I suck at it, but that's what I'm trying to do. Be more like him. I'm not getting there, but I'm better than I was 10 years ago.

[Gidget]

It depends on the person. I have shared my story before about my bishop promising me in the "name of Jesus Christ, and by the power of the priesthood" that he held as my bishop that if I went on my mission before going to college that my mom would get baptized during my "mortal life."

He was inspired, and it did happen. I felt the Spirit so strong in the MTC with Elder John Fowler of the 2nd Q of the 70 spoke that I actually had a burning in my bosom and felt like I was at total peace with God for the entire evening.

Elder Packer's talk in General Conference was patently offensive and were the opinions of an old man, and I do not believe that he spoke for the Lord.

Do I sustain him as a prophet, seer, and revelator? Sure. I don't revere those words the way I did when I was younger. Playing with words and their meaning allows a certain flexibility in their interpretation, also. So, do I think that Pres. Monson is a prophet? Yes. Do I think he can speak face to face with God? Ummmm, if it were necessary.

I think that, like David O. McKay, the prophet has to listen for the still small voice just like I do, or should do. Do I believe that he's ever walked with God? No. But, I don't not believe it either.

Do I believe that the Book of Mormon is an inspired document and that Joseph Smith saw God and was a prophet? Yes, but who knows what the hell Joseph Smith was thinking sometimes.

We've gone from a dynamic prophet who could query God about the meaning of verses in the Bible and get revelations, to ones who serve on committees and don't pronounce on anything other than policy and standard stuff. We're not Catholics; we're not Muslims. We don't believe that the heavens are closed and that there is an end to prophecy. I want the Lord to liveth. I want something new. Since I joined this church, since I got baptized, I've been waiting for something to come down from On High. I've been waiting for a prophecy; something succinct and unmistakable.

I sit and wait and wonder why I do what I do and what the hell is going on, but when I read the Book of Mormon, I feel something that I don't get anywhere else. It's a boring read, honestly, but the Spirit works through it, and the hell if I haven't given so much of my life and my talents and my earnings to the Church, all because of the Book of Mormon.

Do I care if Boyd Packer is a prophet, seer, and revelator? No, I used to, but now, I just worry about being like Jesus Christ, pure love incarnate. I suck at it, but that's what I'm trying to do. Be more like him. I'm not getting there, but I'm better than I was 10 years ago.

For a second after reading this I was looking for the "Like" button. Great post.

[Maximus]

I believe they talk to God but I do not believe God talks to them. When I look at the product objectively, I have a difficult time believing God is really in charge or that God micro-manages the LDS church.

One example is the $3-4B spent on a mall when there are 30,000 children starving to death every day tells me that God isn't speaking to any men in downtown SLC.

Talk about a reach. Why did you leave out how much is spent by the LDS church combating that world hunger and suffering?

[venkman]

Some church leaders are inspired, some not so much. There are "lowly" primary teachers who I'm sure are more in tune with the spirit than general authorities. Some people are just naturally closer to the spirit than others. That doesn't mean we can't develop our ability to receive inspiration, it just means there is a certain degree that we're born with. It's a gift.

[CardiacCoug]

Talk about a reach. Why did you leave out how much is spent by the LDS church combating that world hunger and suffering?

Uhh... Are you saying the LDS Church spent more on world hunger/suffering over the last 5 years than they spent on City Creek Center?

I don't think so.

[CardiacCoug]

I seem to remember a statement from the Presiding Bishop a few years ago that talked about the Church having donated a TOTAL of $750 million or so to charitable causes for the prior 20+ years, FWIW.

Anybody else remember that?

[LA Ute]

…now, I just worry about being like Jesus Christ, pure love incarnate. I suck at it, but that's what I'm trying to do. Be more like him. I'm not getting there, but I'm better than I was 10 years ago.

Yea, verily, wuap, I do believe thou hast placed thy finger the bull's eye, so to speak.

[Maximus]

I seem to remember a statement from the Presiding Bishop a few years ago that talked about the Church having donated a TOTAL of $750 million or so to charitable causes for the prior 20+ years, FWIW.

Anybody else remember that?

I dont know how much it is, but this site gives a graph that seems to indicate you are right.

http://lds.org/service/humanitarian/church?lang=eng

The point is, focusing on the costs of a business project and ignoring the aid given by the church is not giving a fair look on it.

[jay santos]

I believe they talk to God but I do not believe God talks to them. When I look at the product objectively, I have a difficult time believing God is really in charge or that God micro-manages the LDS church.

One example is the $3-4B spent on a mall when there are 30,000 children starving to death every day tells me that God isn't speaking to any men in downtown SLC.

Lame argument. The church isn't sinking money into that mall. It's made by their business arm, and it's a profit maker. Now we can discuss whether or not it's a wise financial investment and whether or not the church uses the prophet to God communication tunnel to predict high returning investments, but it's lame to diss the church's charity by pointing to its business operations.