Your thoughts on church leaders

[jay santos]

I'd make this a poll, but I kind of suck at making polls, so I'm just going to ask the question: How inspired to believe the leaders of the Church are?

Church leadership gets ripped on quite a bit here, which is just the culture of CUF, but I wonder about people's opinion of the brethren as whole. Setting specific issues aside, do you consider the general authorities to be inspired? What about local leaders like bishops and stake presidents?

Undoubtedly, there are is a full spectrum of opinions here. I doubt many here believe even the prophet to be infallible, which seems logical given our belief in agency, but I suspect that a plurality of CUFers believe that church leaders are at least somewhat inspired. The question I have for you, is how inspired do you think they are?

If our leaders are fallible, what mistakes will the Lord allow them to make, and what mistakes will lead to their removal, one way or another? If you disagree with their counsel, how do you deal with it, and how do you ultimately decide who is right? Perhaps most importantly, what do you teach your kids about following our leaders?

That's a lot of questions, and some of them are kind of personal, but I'm curious, and though I think I know where most people stand I'm most likely wrong about at least a few and maybe many of you.

Do you think people think God makes apostles or prophets who make big mistakes die early? That would be the only way for God to "remove" them, right? Other than the rare case like George P Lee or Paul H Dunn, but their mistakes didn't have anything to do with false revelation, which is what I think of when it comes to a church leader leading the church astray.

[CardiacCoug]

My thoughts on Church leaders:

They are generally good men with good intentions. I have had awesome Bishops as an adult -- really can't complain about any of them. Had a few weird Bishops when I was a teenager.

A few of my Elders Quorum Presidents have been pompous asses, but I chalk that up to youth and inexperience.

I don't expect that much from them. I certainly don't expect them to be telepathic or have any type of supernatural insights into anything.

[mUUser]

Elder Packer's talk in General Conference was patently offensive and were the opinions of an old man, and I do not believe that he spoke for the Lord.

For many years, I've thought the church should allow emeritus status for the 12 and FP when necessary. ETB and MGR come to mind, but would be especially appropriate in BKP case.

On the local side, I really admire my bishop, and not because I think he's a man that oozes inspiration. But, he tries very hard, and spends many, many hours helping others, often to the detriment of his own family IMO. I'd cut him a TON of slack.

[jay santos]

But, he tries very hard, and spends many, many hours helping others, often to the detriment of his own family IMO.

This is something I'm always curious about. Why do we think of this as a positive thing or a sign of a dedicated priesthood leader?

[TripletDaddy]

Cowboy I'm curious. You seem to post these types of things every now and then so I'm wondering if there is some underlying issue or motive. Not being combative, just trying to understand.

Also, I'm wondering what your purpose is in posting this. You conclude by stating that you presume to know how most will answer (which makes me wonder why you ask) but then admit that you might be wrong (which makes me wonder why it matters). Most importantly, you ask a bunch of personal questions yet offer none of your insights. Literally zero.

Anyhow, just my own curious question within your question. I have enjoyed some of the responses thus far.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I believe that little to none of the day to day issues with the church have any sort of revelation attached to them. I believe that once a generation or so God does give some kind of revelation to the leaders of the church, I think this generation is the explosion of temple building not fighting gay marriage FWIW.

I think that local leaders are perhaps called to be bishop or SP by revelation, but more often than not are just the guys that are willing and/or have some relationship with other local leaders. I do not think that God reveals anything about Stake/Ward level things like activities, primary teachers, Scouts.

[RC Vikings]

My feelings on church leaders are the same as my feelings toward little league coaches, if they are willing to spend the time and I'm not than I have no room to criticize. With all the bishops in the world you're going to get a few bad ones but honestly I can't believe the time some of these guys put in.

[TripletDaddy]

My feelings on church leaders are the same as my feelings toward little league coaches, if they are willing to spend the time and I'm not than I have no room to criticize. With all the bishops in the world you're going to get a few bad ones but honestly I can't believe the time some of these guys put in.

I guy I work with is a bishop. He works some decent hours at work...maybe until 730 or so (this is Utah, remember). Other nights, he leaves around 6 and goes straight to the chapel for whatever meetings and interviews he has. Currently, he is spending massive amounts of time to do tithing settlement on Sunday's and mid week. This past Saturday he helped do something or other at the temple.

Dude puts in a load of time. bishops are hard workers and, in my experience, really good guys.

[Danimal]

My personal opinion is that, for whatever reason, God is largely silent. I just don't see God very involved in anything in this world, including the global or local running of the church. I think that pretty much everything is left up to people to figure out themselves. I rarely doubt the sincerity of leaders -- most of my experiences have been positive with leaders. Unfortunately, though, I don't think the correlation is very strong between someone's sincerity and their ability to determine God's will. I think the real danger is when somebody becomes confident that they consistently speak for God or know his will.

I teach my kids that when you are taught something at church, you need to think about it and decide for yourself whether it's true or not. Lots of things at church will be helpful, occasionally something will be harmful, but all should be evaluated with our brains. I tell my kids when I hear something said that I think is wrong or harmful (e.g., homophobia) and encourage them to do the same.

[LogMafia]

I seem to remember a statement from the Presiding Bishop a few years ago that talked about the Church having donated a TOTAL of $750 million or so to charitable causes for the prior 20+ years, FWIW.

Anybody else remember that?

http://lds.org/church/statistics?lang=eng

If this is all the fast offerings that the members donate then we really need to step it up.

[clackamascoug]

When first called to a Bishopric, I was kind of surprised to see how cavalier the whole calling thing happens. It was more of a juggling skill than a spiritual skill. Then I learned a good lesson, when we had to set apart people for callings. I honestly felt the Lords hand in the setting aparts and blessings. Consistently, and noteworthy. In fact, my biggest lesson ever learned was when I had to set apart a woman I did not like at all..... I thought she was a total people user and a marriage breaker upper skank. I put my hands on her head, and my whole world changed, and I grew up about 10 years in 2 minutes. I'll never forget the deep love that the Savior felt for this woman. Miraculous actually.

[ERCougar]

I guy I work with is a bishop. He works some decent hours at work...maybe until 730 or so (this is Utah, remember). Other nights, he leaves around 6 and goes straight to the chapel for whatever meetings and interviews he has. Currently, he is spending massive amounts of time to do tithing settlement on Sunday's and mid week. This past Saturday he helped do something or other at the temple.

Dude puts in a load of time. bishops are hard workers and, in my experience, really good guys.

Outside of Utah, they stay at work until 9 posting on CUF.

[ERCougar]

Uhh... Are you saying the LDS Church spent more on world hunger/suffering over the last 5 years than they spent on City Creek Center?

I don't think so.

I have my concerns about the City Creek investment, but it's obviously not fair to compare money invested versus money spent.

[Indy Coug]

I think leaders are as inspired as they seek to be, given the sphere of their stewardship. I think all of us are guilty for winging it on our own too much. My experience is that if we took the time to thoughtfully and prayerfully make the right decisions, the inspiration was there.

My guess is that, in general, the higher up the chain you go, the better the leaders are at obtaining inspiration.

[ERCougar]

Can you really be Mormon without believing the prophet is inspired? That seems like a pretty fair litmus test, and I'm pretty hesitant to label anything a litmus test. I'm not sure how you navigate a TR interview without believing there's at least some inspiration.

That said, I certainly don't think that every word spoken by Church leaders (even the prophet) is God's will. I think my opinion would most closely parallel Danimal's. I think that leaders are generally inspired (be it through a sum of past life experiences or through "revelation", whatever that means) in their direction of the body of the Church.

A few caveats, however:
1) Being human, they're not perfect at differentiating personal opinion from divine guidance
2) They're speaking to the body of the church, not to each individual. It's up to each individual to decide how or if it applies to him/her.