Has the raised bar been beneficial to missionary work?

[mUUser]

As a bit of a related sidebar, if you had an investigator friend that wanted to learn more about the Church, would you refer this friend to the missionaries, assuming that you like the current set of missionaries in the ward?

I probably would not. Not sure it is a great idea to turn over basic teaching duties to 19 year olds with little teaching, Church, public relations, or life experience.

I know that all convert baptisms are required to receive the discussions, so eventually I would arrange for those. But at this stage of my life, I think I would basically take it upon myself to shepherd friends through the process. I would also want my wife to be a part of it so she could give her point of view. There is really nothing covered in the discussions that a member cannot teach or answer, plus there isn't the added awkwardness to "close the sale" and there is no pressure on my friends because we move entirely at their pace. If the process takes a year before I even bring up a baptismal invite, then no worries. I don't mind because I am not getting transferred and I am not reporting my numbers every week at a Zone meeting. By the time I set up the required missionary discussions, it would mostly be a formality.

I wonder if many members are already taking this approach? What would you do?

For the past 2 months, my daughter has a friend who insists on going to YW with her. Now, she wants to attend church with us one time. I won't let the WML, missionaries or anyone else who has a twinkle in their eye within a country mile of this girl.

The last friend of my daughter's that was interested was driven out after 2 weeks because she said it "freaked her out" that the WML wanted to call her parents and invite them to church and then the missionaries dropped by her house unannounced. The more I think about it, the more I hate our missionary program.

[Commando]

For the past 2 months, my daughter has a friend who insists on going to YW with her. Now, she wants to attend church with us one time. I won't let the WML, missionaries or anyone else who has a twinkle in their eye within a country mile of this girl.

The last friend of my daughter's that was interested was driven out after 2 weeks because she said it "freaked her out" that the WML wanted to call her parents and invite them to church and then the missionaries dropped by her house unannounced. The more I think about it, the more I hate our missionary program.

Yeah that sucks. I remember inviting investigators to our branch activites and the members driving them away from conversion because they couldn't stop acting like catty little bitches for 2 seconds.

[wuapinmon]

I think this generation takes too much crap for their texting. I don't buy that texting has rendered kids unable to talk. In fact I'd argue that texting makes this generation more social overall. I think that shy kids probably actually communicate more (even though it's via text) than they did in my day when there was no non-verbal option. I think "normally social" kids now are much more communicative than in the past (annoyingly so to some extent). Kids talk and text at school, come home and text and facebook and tweet. It doesn't stop. I see texts coming and going from my 16 year old at 4 am at times. My son is a shy kid and if it was 1985 he'd probably never call a girl. In 2010 he "talks" to 5 or 6 a day and it ends up putting him in social situations (parties, get togethers etc...) that I think he'd have been unaware of "back in the day."

I think I do buy into the gaming being a culprit when it comes to poor social skills but I'm not sure how much blame to assess.

I think I agree with this. However, the quality of communication that used to happen, could, arguably, be affected by the omnipresent quantity.

Raising the bar hasn't caused a huge drop in the number of missionaries. From the peak of 60,000, we're down to about 52,000 or 53,000? That's a drop of about 15%? And we can't attribute the entire drop in the number of missionaries to the "raise the bar" issue. So let's just keep it clean at 10%.

I don't think we can say those 10% all would have been superb missionaries. To the contrary, being generous, let's say 5% would have been superb.

Doesn't seem like a 5% drop in the number of excellent missionaries would cause a steep decline in the quality of missionaries generally.

Plus, the missionaries who are on missions now would have been there anyway. Would they have been made that much better by those who would be there but for raise the bar? It's equally likely they'd be worse due to the non-excellent missionaries who would have gone.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of "raise the bar" and think it is a big mistake and has deprived many people the opportunity to serve missions who would have served well, in addition to heightening the perfection pressures we place on our youth, while downplaying the healing power of repentance.)

I think I have a couple of things that I would need to investigate before I buy your argument.

1. What are the percentages of mission age/served during the peak vs. now?
2. The unknowable, how much more effective would that 5% you suppose be. Someone on here has this quote:

“Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldn’t even be there, 80 are just targets, 9 are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, One is a warrior, And he will bring the others back.”

If we accept this to be true, then the same could be true of missionary work.

[BigPiney]

Speaking of the Missionary program. One of the missionaries from my ward is serving in Sterling, Virginia. If any of you from that area meet an Australian from California, treat him right.

[Surfah]

Speaking of the Missionary program. One of the missionaries from my ward is serving in Sterling, Virginia. If any of you from that area meet an Australian from California, treat him right.

If he ever gets down this way my dad is the WML.

[Paperback Writer]

I think this generation takes too much crap for their texting. I don't buy that texting has rendered kids unable to talk. In fact I'd argue that texting makes this generation more social overall. I think that shy kids probably actually communicate more (even though it's via text) than they did in my day when there was no non-verbal option. I think "normally social" kids now are much more communicative than in the past (annoyingly so to some extent). Kids talk and text at school, come home and text and facebook and tweet. It doesn't stop. I see texts coming and going from my 16 year old at 4 am at times. My son is a shy kid and if it was 1985 he'd probably never call a girl. In 2010 he "talks" to 5 or 6 a day and it ends up putting him in social situations (parties, get togethers etc...) that I think he'd have been unaware of "back in the day."

I think I do buy into the gaming being a culprit when it comes to poor social skills but I'm not sure how much blame to assess.

I’ll vouch for teenagers and texting, communication, and organizational skills. Why back when, it took me and my friends hours, sometimes days, to plan and prepare a party. Today, my teenagers can do it in minutes, literally! For instance, one Saturday night my teenager asks me if friends can come over because they just found out the movie was sold out. My spouse and I are thinking, OK but they won’t pull this off. Better to say “yes” to something that won’t happen than “no” and face the angst. So what happens? Ten minutes later kids are walking through the front door with groceries to cook Mexican food, DVDs, video game consuls and controllers, etc. Next thing I know, there’s salsa and dip on the table, fajitas on the grill, and a Rock Band competition has started.

I ask my kid if her cell phone has an app for that kind of stuff. I swear this generation can plan a wedding in about 15 minutes.

[grapevine]

Who visited www.cummorah.com That webmaster has all the answers about the missionary program. Railed on the feeding program saying it was ineffective and some areas abolished it. Bragged on having no time to eat.

You have to eat as a missionary and are only to fast on the normal fast sunday. Discouraged from doing it at other times. IF you plan your work around dinner appointments home than I think you are just fine eating.

Dinner appointments were not supposed to be over one hour. Who didn't break that rule. Some missionaries were what I would call anal about every rule get out after one hour no matter what. I wasn't.

One zl that aspired to be ap gave us a poem that said love satan and included staying too long at members homes. Bragged about passing up desert at stake presidents home to keep rule. I would of had desert myself. Like more people join because you miss desert to keep a rule. Also told me to do personal study at my desk when he was over and not lounge on couch. Made up a few rules. He did become ap.

People that knew him were shocked he was that letter of the law as a missionary. Another zl that played football at Michigan than transfered to BYU was a zone leader and got on some junior companions for always calling President. And saying things to leaders like we are in charge. I never called President myself. As ap he told us we let president down when baptisms were low and would write in our white weeklies when we got done with activities will not murmur will do this and that. I determined not too after he talked like that. Quoted the 121'st section of Doctrine and Covenants too. Did he live it.

Those were some leaders that let things get to there head or let you know who was in charge. He even made a point of walking away from football scholarship to go on mission to members and peopl e on street.

Most leaders were good missionaries though. I was around a missionary that stressed so much about rules he had a nervous breakdown and did weird stuff. Would not want to leave apartment or if he did mope around store and not want people to follow him around. I think he lived nervous breakdown himself though before mission.

I served with manic depressant who was never wrong and other people never right. Said members did not like missionaries. It was probably him and his temper. Did not want to work and got frustrated over stupidest things. He said he prayed about going home month early for his wedding. Got to go home 4 months early. Intersting story kid he knew came to same mission then had to go home but was able after a year to come back out. Kid that went home was visiting his girlfriend of missionary out and that missionary called and kid home answered phone. Big trouble there.

I followed areas were missionaries did not want to work and helped themselves to refrigerators, demanded dinner took juice instead of water when not offered really. Hurt missionary work. For the most part though missionaries were good and decent.

Ones I am around haven't been around enough of many to know how they are. Also is there a rule about being done with dinner by 5? I mean what if the husband does not get home tell after. Rule was customary dinner hour in area.

If you work with members, work with people and be graceful I think doors are opened. I don't mind dinner program as it helps missionaries and can spread missionary work open doors that way.

[filsdepac]

Dinner appointments were not supposed to be over one hour. Who didn't break that rule. Some missionaries were what I would call anal about every rule get out after one hour no matter what. I wasn't.

One zl that aspired to be ap gave us a poem that said love satan and included staying too long at members homes. Bragged about passing up desert at stake presidents home to keep rule. I would of had desert myself. Like more people join because you miss desert to keep a rule. Also told me to do personal study at my desk when he was over and not lounge on couch. Made up a few rules. He did become ap.

These are excellent paragraphs. I would have loved to be your companion.

[scottie]

I followed areas were missionaries did not want to work and helped themselves to refrigerators, demanded dinner took juice instead of water when not offered really. Hurt missionary work. For the most part though missionaries were good and decent.

Idiots. Why do you think they did that?

[Spicy McHaggis]

I always felt some sorrow that I didn't serve a FT mission, but after serving for four years as WM and WML, I'm convinced the missionary program is broken, and needs a complete overhaul -- top to bottom.

Of course, i don't carry that regret around anymore.

I agree, it is broken. They need to send the elders out on service missions, digging wells, building schools and medical clinics (that sort of thing) in 3rd world countries. Then after a day's work perhaps they can teach at night. I would wager everything I own that they would get more converts that way.

[creekster]

I agree, it is broken. They need to send the elders out on service missions, digging wells, building schools and medical clinics (that sort of thing) in 3rd world countries. Then after a day's work perhaps they can teach at night. I would wager everything I own that they would get more converts that way.

Yes, look at how the peace corps program has made the third world love america, after all.

[ERCougar]

Yes, look at how the peace corps program has made the third world love america, after all.

Weird, since the Peace Corps attracts so many pro-capitalist America types.

[creekster]

Weird, since the Peace Corps attracts so many pro-capitalist America types.

Hey, I almost signed up. But with my mission that would have been four years. But the real deal breaker was that becaseu my wife and I were both liberal arts types they refused to promise we would be assigned together.

[ERCougar]

Hey, I almost signed up. But with my mission that would have been four years. But the real deal breaker was that becaseu my wife and I were both liberal arts types they refused to promise we would be assigned together.

If you ignore the whole "accomplishing God's work on the Earth" thing, I think two years in the Peace Corps is as good of a use of time (and in many ways better) as a mission.

[creekster]

If you ignore the whole "accomplishing God's work on the Earth" thing, I think two years in the Peace Corps is as good, and in many ways better, a use of time as a mission.

If you choose to ignore the God's work on earth part, you are probabyl better going in the peace corps.