Has the raised bar been beneficial to missionary work?

[SteelBlue]

I went out teaching with the missionaries on Sunday and for about the 5th time in a row was taken aback at their lack of social skills and teaching skills. Enough time has passed since the rasising of the bar and enough elders have passed through my ward for me to feel like I'm seeing a pattern. My observation is that there are more socially awkward and lesser skilled missionaries than there were before the bar was raised. Or perhaps I should say that there are fewer skilled and socially adept elders than there were before the bar was raised.

I think there are at least two problems. One, some of the kids with the best social skills use those skills to disqualify themselves from service. Back in the day these types ended up being some of the best missionaries when they had really made changes in their lives. Unfortunately they were also some of the worst if they hadn't quite made the necessary changes and probably were the driving force behind the stricter standards. Obviously there are still some great, well rounded elders serving out there but I'm starting to think they are increasingly outnumbered by the awkward. I'm wondering if there aren't enough of them to serve as models to all of those who are less skilled? Two, I think the shift to Preach My Gospel and away from the 6 standard discussions is too difficult for many missionaries. It is a better approach for a skilled missionary. It is a recipe for disaster for missionaries with poor social and teaching skills. If they can't make eye contact, can't carry the conversation, and have a difficult time listening and rephrasing and going off script the lesson becomes brutal. Maybe my ward is an outlier but I doubt it.

Is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing? Those of you with kids recently on missions, did they feel like they had to teach social skills to other missionaries as much as they taught investigators?

[Indy Coug]

Is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing? Those of you with kids recently on missions, did they feel like they had to teach social skills to other missionaries as much as they taught investigators?

Nope. The ones that I've gone on splits with and the ones that have taught in our home seem to be relatively competent.

[LiveCoug]

I thought the bar being raised had to do with worthiness, not social skills....

[SteelBlue]

I thought the bar being raised had to do with worthiness, not social skills....

What I'm wondering is if too many of those with great social skills are getting themselves excluded. It's a tenuous tie I know, but just something that's crossed my mind over the past few years.

[RC Vikings]

Is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing? Those of you with kids recently on missions, did they feel like they had to teach social skills to other missionaries as much as they taught investigators?

My oldest saw a lot of this. He had some goods one's while he was in leadership but after that the MP gave him some companions that really needed help. He loved his mission but he was ready to come home mainly so he didn't hang with these companions that were terribly socially backward.

[Indy Coug]

Maybe the social awkwardness isn't so much from bar raising as it is from an increasingly insular society where friendships are forged and maintained over the internet.

[BigPiney]

I know the bar has been raised, but it may mean that it just takes them more time to get ready. We have had sisters come though this area, one who lived with a guy for a year and then decided to go on a mission and made the appropriate changes in here life. Another time we had two sisters out of the four, that had gone through recovery (drug and alcohol) and we still attending 12 step meetings while on the mission.

I have not seen seen any more of the social awkwardness than I have seen in the past. Maybe they just sent the weird ones up to your part of california.

[jay santos]

I went out teaching with the missionaries on Sunday and for about the 5th time in a row was taken aback at their lack of social skills and teaching skills. Enough time has passed since the rasising of the bar and enough elders have passed through my ward for me to feel like I'm seeing a pattern. My observation is that there are more socially awkward and lesser skilled missionaries than there were before the bar was raised. Or perhaps I should say that there are fewer skilled and socially adept elders than there were before the bar was raised.

I think there are at least two problems. One, some of the kids with the best social skills use those skills to disqualify themselves from service. Back in the day these types ended up being some of the best missionaries when they had really made changes in their lives. Unfortunately they were also some of the worst if they hadn't quite made the necessary changes and probably were the driving force behind the stricter standards. Obviously there are still some great, well rounded elders serving out there but I'm starting to think they are increasingly outnumbered by the awkward. I'm wondering if there aren't enough of them to serve as models to all of those who are less skilled? Two, I think the shift to Preach My Gospel and away from the 6 standard discussions is too difficult for many missionaries. It is a better approach for a skilled missionary. It is a recipe for disaster for missionaries with poor social and teaching skills. If they can't make eye contact, can't carry the conversation, and have a difficult time listening and rephrasing and going off script the lesson becomes brutal. Maybe my ward is an outlier but I doubt it.

Is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing? Those of you with kids recently on missions, did they feel like they had to teach social skills to other missionaries as much as they taught investigators?

My understanding is that the raising the bar thing has cut off a certain number of missionaries, not sure exactly but I'm thinking in the 20% range. I doubt that 20% would have that much of an impact on the average social skill set of a missionary.

I think it has hurt missionary work just in terms of sheer numbers. X < X + 20%, even if there are a few bad apples in the 20%.

I look at missionaries as an adult and I too think they lack social skills, but I think maybe it's just a perspective thing and me and all my peers were equally awkward at age 19.

[Pheidippides]

I'm seeing some issues in my area as well. A coworker is taking the discussions and he's a genuine honest truth seeker type. He will convert when/if he feels moved in his heart, which is the right answer.

He was recently complaining to me that the elders sort of talk down to him (he is highly educated) when they give him assignments, they visit at very bad times (when he is watching football), they stay too long, and they put too much pressure on him to convert now. But he's having a hard time telling them to back off because they are otherwise so damned nice.

I chuckled while I thought of me 15 years ago. And then I told him I could fix that problem with a simple phone call.

[ERCougar]

Maybe the social awkwardness isn't so much from bar raising as it is from an increasingly insular society where friendships are forged and maintained over the internet.

I wonder some about this too.

[TripletDaddy]

I have done splits quite a bit over the past couple of years and I think I may have posted about this elsewhere, but I was a bit surprised at how disorganized the discussions feel with this new approach to teaching the Gospel.

I understand the desire to speak from the hip at the prompting of the Spirit, but that presupposes that the missionaries will perpetually be able to discern and follow the promptings at a second's notice.

My observation is that the discussions are often unfocused and the missionaries are somewhat lacking in their ability to address the concerns as presented.

Another thing I noticed, which I am sure is pandemic to all missionaries we send out (including from my generation) is that we are too quick to try to get to the commitment and do not spend enough time trying to really resolve or listen to the concern. I was in a discussion with some Elders and the investigator basically said that he didnt know if he believed in God or Jesus. The missionaries challenged him to be baptized. wtf? Makes no sense.

I don't know if these issues are unique to the new method of teaching, but my overall take is that there is a reason teachers across the spectrum take the time and make the effort to prepare a syllabus and systematic lesson plans. Shooting from the hip seems to result in a choppy learning experience.

[wuapinmon]

I went out teaching with the missionaries on Sunday and for about the 5th time in a row was taken aback at their lack of social skills and teaching skills. Enough time has passed since the rasising of the bar and enough elders have passed through my ward for me to feel like I'm seeing a pattern. My observation is that there are more socially awkward and lesser skilled missionaries than there were before the bar was raised. Or perhaps I should say that there are fewer skilled and socially adept elders than there were before the bar was raised.

I think there are at least two problems. One, some of the kids with the best social skills use those skills to disqualify themselves from service. Back in the day these types ended up being some of the best missionaries when they had really made changes in their lives. Unfortunately they were also some of the worst if they hadn't quite made the necessary changes and probably were the driving force behind the stricter standards. Obviously there are still some great, well rounded elders serving out there but I'm starting to think they are increasingly outnumbered by the awkward. I'm wondering if there aren't enough of them to serve as models to all of those who are less skilled? Two, I think the shift to Preach My Gospel and away from the 6 standard discussions is too difficult for many missionaries. It is a better approach for a skilled missionary. It is a recipe for disaster for missionaries with poor social and teaching skills. If they can't make eye contact, can't carry the conversation, and have a difficult time listening and rephrasing and going off script the lesson becomes brutal. Maybe my ward is an outlier but I doubt it.

Is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing? Those of you with kids recently on missions, did they feel like they had to teach social skills to other missionaries as much as they taught investigators?

I think it's impossible to know. I'd like to say yes and blame the missionaries' awkwardness on the higher bar, but I think it's just generational perspective. Our view of how it was when we were there age was skewed by our age at the time. As we get older we see them not as peers or younger peers, but as youth, and eventually, I'm guessing, Ole 71 sees them as kids that he has to call "men" by convention. My point, I don't think that we were much different. But, I'd like to think we were.

[Donuthole]

Maybe the social awkwardness isn't so much from bar raising as it is from an increasingly insular society where friendships are forged and maintained over the internet.

This. I've noticed this a bit in working with the youth, and i'm trying to figure out how to handle it. I can get any of my YM to have an hour-long conversation with me via text, but getting them to answer questions in teacher's quorum, or to hold a conversation with me while we drive to our YM activity is like pulling teeth.

My baby sister is the same way.

[Goatnapper'96]

I went out teaching with the missionaries on Sunday and for about the 5th time in a row was taken aback at their lack of social skills and teaching skills. Enough time has passed since the rasising of the bar and enough elders have passed through my ward for me to feel like I'm seeing a pattern. My observation is that there are more socially awkward and lesser skilled missionaries than there were before the bar was raised. Or perhaps I should say that there are fewer skilled and socially adept elders than there were before the bar was raised.

I think there are at least two problems. One, some of the kids with the best social skills use those skills to disqualify themselves from service. Back in the day these types ended up being some of the best missionaries when they had really made changes in their lives. Unfortunately they were also some of the worst if they hadn't quite made the necessary changes and probably were the driving force behind the stricter standards. Obviously there are still some great, well rounded elders serving out there but I'm starting to think they are increasingly outnumbered by the awkward. I'm wondering if there aren't enough of them to serve as models to all of those who are less skilled? Two, I think the shift to Preach My Gospel and away from the 6 standard discussions is too difficult for many missionaries. It is a better approach for a skilled missionary. It is a recipe for disaster for missionaries with poor social and teaching skills. If they can't make eye contact, can't carry the conversation, and have a difficult time listening and rephrasing and going off script the lesson becomes brutal. Maybe my ward is an outlier but I doubt it.

Is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing? Those of you with kids recently on missions, did they feel like they had to teach social skills to other missionaries as much as they taught investigators?

The thing I love about high school chicks....as I grow older they stay the same age!

I don't know if I agree with you that smooth talkers such as you and I that led our priest's quorum in triples, and I ain't talking about slow pitch softball save the TO High chicks who were the epitome of slowpitch softball, are the reason the missionaries suck at teaching. I think it is likely as much Indy's thoughts along with your conclusions that going away from the six organized discussions has many of them waffling in the wind waiting for "THE SPIRIT" to tell them in that hour, yea that very moment, what it is they are to utter. I still remember some dorky RM who was an assistant teacher at the MTC going on about that stuff and recalling myself being less than convinced. It was and is and forever will be a sales job.

One thing that is nice about living in a tiny predominately LDS hamlet, I have yet to go out on splits once! So I really have no strong opinion. The two I have dealt with for the past while were very willing to come help me harvest wood. Now the one from Tonga showed up in flip flops the first time and assured me that is what he wore at the plantations back home. I got him some sneakers and his 6'5" 250 lb frame was very usefull in loading up some of the hernia makers. But actually they are both pretty normal.

[Katy Lied]

I've observed this for a while. "Raising the Bar" seems to mean passing a morals test. Those really effective missionaries--the ones with natural leadership and charisma and a wild streak--those are the missionaries that people want to be around. Those are the ones that draw investigators in with the force of their personality. Unfortunately, the ones who get missionary calls are the ones who have stayed home and watched TV for 18 years, and played Doom and Call of Duty and are about as exciting as paint. They don't have creativity or a sense of service, but they are obedient and they do follow the rules.