Has the raised bar been beneficial to missionary work?

[Jeff Lebowski]

And yet, stuff like this still shows up. The entire notion of raising the bar denies the Atonement to people. I find it repugnant. Anything that flows from that line of thinking is equally corporate and/or bureaucratic.

I reject even the line of thinking that relies on stats and likelihoods for allowing someone the chance to serve. It is repugnant to reduce a desire to serve to probabilities. And, speaking to the bureaucrats will only get you grief, or worse. To challenge LDS thinking is apostasy. Maybe I'm there.

Oh my. Hyperbolize much?

God forbid some bishop asked a kid to lose 13 lbs.

[pelagius]

I had a Polynesian kid tell me a couple days ago it was higher for them. I am not sure if that's true or not.

So I pulled the MHANES data from the CDC for 2011-2012. A BMI of 37 is about the 94 percentile for males in the 18-22 age range. And about the 96th percentile for the non-hispanic white category and about the 87th percentile for the non-hispanic black category. So the BMI restriction is going to have some bite these days. If it's strictly enforced it does have a non-trivial effect on the number of potential missionaries. I don't necessarily find BMI restrictions problematic, although given the limitations of BMI I would think carve-outs in the rules for additional metrics of health/fitness would be sensible.

[TripletDaddy]

I'd be fine with that if it didn't create a hierarchy of "righteousness" or some other Utah cultural creation. I can only imagine that it would. It injects yet another level of potential arbitrariness into a very human system that aspires to divine inspiration.

I would agree that vague standard such as "looking good" would lend themselves to the very definition of arbitrary. What looks good to one might not to another. However, it does seem that weight could be cause for pragmatic concerns over safety and liability. The military, the airline industry, and even NASA (several years ago i was curious about the process of becoming an astronaut) all legally impose weight restrictions on candidates. Also, are there other health conditions that would preclude full-time service as a proselyting missionary or is weight the only physical consideration? If the Church can show weight restrictions are related to serving in certain capacities, the practice might not be as outlandish as it may appear at first blush.

[cougjunkie]

V.Unga was asked to lose weight before serving. This is a kid who was told he was healthy enough to play division 1 football. You know what he did? He sucked it up, lost the weight and served a faithful mission. Overweight people are overweight for a reason, they lack self discipline which is why they would struggle on a mission and should not be allowed to go.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'd be fine with that if it didn't create a hierarchy of "righteousness" or some other Utah cultural creation. I can only imagine that it would. It injects yet another level of potential arbitrariness into a very human system that aspires to divine inspiration.

Ah... The good old "inconsistency" argument.

So on the one hand you want a bishop to bend the rules and let an overweight kid go. On the other hand, you find someone in backwater, Utah bending the rules the other way and all hell breaks loose. Seems pretty arbitrary.

[Nakoma]

Ah... The good old "inconsistency" argument.

So on the one hand you want a bishop to bend the rules and let an overweight kid go. On the other hand, you find someone in backwater, Utah bending the rules the other way and all hell breaks loose. Seems pretty arbitrary.

Maybe bending the rules for inclusion is better than bending the rules for exclusion.

[Sizzle]

Bully for him! What about the introverted fat kid who is ugly and has few friends, but wants to challenge himself by serving, but won't have to courage to try again if he applies and is denied the first time? How do we quantify that loss to the world, to the Church, and to the boy? Isaiah 53:2

If he can't handle the rejection of being told he needs to better himself by a church leader, he's going to have a hard time dealing with rejection after rejection out in the mission field knocking doors. SJBH.

[Donuthole]

Well BMI charts don't apply to Pelagius. He is 6 foot, 230 with a body fat of 4 percent. Plus he's aiming for bigger and better things, MP and beyond. He qualifies.

Pelag's body fat is way higher than 4%. Probably closer to 18. Sorry, not sorry!

[pelagius]

Pelag's body fat is way higher than 4%. Probably closer to 18. Sorry, not sorry!

Yeah, I would think so ... at least when I'm around 230 I would think that's about right.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Maybe bending the rules for inclusion is better than bending the rules for exclusion.

Of course.

But you can't be outraged and call someone an "outlier" for sticking by the rules while simultaneously bitching about people not sticking to the rules.

Sorry, but arguments about "inconsistency" always strike me as intellectually lazy. There is no such thing as consistency when dealing with human beings under any circumstances. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

[wuapinmon]

Oh my. Hyperbolize much?

God forbid some bishop asked a kid to lose 13 lbs.

God forbid indeed.

[wuapinmon]

If he can't handle the rejection of being told he needs to better himself by a church leader, he's going to have a hard time dealing with rejection after rejection out in the mission field knocking doors. SJBH.

Because rejection by someone in your own church is the exact same thing as being rejected by someone outside of your faith. And, let him have the hard time. If he fails, fine, but let him fail. Don't have him fail before he gets to take the test. If he has desires to serve, he is called to the work.

[wuapinmon]

Of course.

But you can't be outraged and call someone an "outlier" for sticking by the rules while simultaneously bitching about people not sticking to the rules.

Sorry, but arguments about "inconsistency" always strike me as intellectually lazy. There is no such thing as consistency when dealing with human beings under any circumstances. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

Consistency would be to let everyone try to serve and deal with the consequences of their failure. Let everyone serve that has desires. Anything else goes against the Scriptures.

[old_gregg]

I had a Polynesian kid tell me a couple days ago it was higher for them. I am not sure if that's true or not.

makes sense. it's not poly kids' propensity for extra weight you have to worry about, it's their racial predilections to sloth and theft.

[wuapinmon]

V.Unga was asked to lose weight before serving. This is a kid who was told he was healthy enough to play division 1 football. You know what he did? He sucked it up, lost the weight and served a faithful mission. Overweight people are overweight for a reason, they lack self discipline which is why they would struggle on a mission and should not be allowed to go.

Unintelligent people also struggle on a mission.