13 Articles of Healthy Chastity

[BigPiney]

I appreciate you sharing that. There must be a middle ground between not forcing kids to do everything and letting them make all the decisions though, right? If Broccoli is a bad example then how about whether they go to church, to school, brush their teeth, go to bed when you tell them, etc?

Good point with the food though. Peaches to this day make me gag for some reason. How do you approach food with your kids? I feel like mine need to try it, but if it really isn't something they like (and not just that they want their Halloween candy instead) I don't think I would force them. There are so many things we do as parents we do that our parents did without thinking much about them, I hadn't even really even thought about the experience you are describing. Thanks again.

With food, I will make my kids try everything that we give them. If they don't like it then they don't have to eat it, though they do have to eat something of a similiar nutritional value. No peas, then carrots. I can understand not liking some foods (olives and raisins) and I don't want to force them to eat somthing that they find disgusting.

I think one of the worst things we could do is force a kid to eat all of the food that we serve them. Being a part of the clean plate club does a huge disservice for kids, now and later in life.

[Mrs. Funk]

I think one of the worst things we could do is force a kid to eat all of the food that we serve them. Being a part of the clean plate club does a huge disservice for kids, now and later in life.

I know quite a few people raised by parents who grew up in the Great Depression who have transmitted a great deal of food-related guilt to the children. Most of these individuals have struggled with their weight their entire life and feel really guilty if they can't/don't finish everything on their plate. They will eat long past feeling comfortably full to the point of being sick.

[Moliere]

I appreciate you sharing that. There must be a middle ground between not forcing kids to do everything and letting them make all the decisions though, right? If Broccoli is a bad example then how about whether they go to church, to school, brush their teeth, go to bed when you tell them, etc?

Good point with the food though. Peaches to this day make me gag for some reason. How do you approach food with your kids? I feel like mine need to try it, but if it really isn't something they like (and not just that they want their Halloween candy instead) I don't think I would force them. There are so many things we do as parents we do that our parents did without thinking much about them, I hadn't even really even thought about the experience you are describing. Thanks again.

I'm still trying to figure out if you got trolled by a very well disguised sex joke (broccoli & peaches?).

[DrumNFeather]

I wonder whether it is uniquely LDS that when a lot of us say "morals" we are referring to sexual purity.

I don't think anyone limits it to sexual purity. Just my opinion, of course. But I know it helps your argument if they do!

[marsupial]

I couldn't disagree more on this one. Parents forcing their kids to eat certain foods is just wrong. Perhaps abusive. I love broccoli, and so do millions of others. Millions of others hate broccoli. It's a personal preference, and it has no consequence whatsoever.

I was mildly abused by my domineering mother growing up. Beatings with electric cords etc. She used to play this weird mind game with me over peaches. Can't leave the table till you eat your peaches. It was horrible, having to gag down those peaches, with tears streaming. And the gagging over each slice. It lasted until I was 12, and 6 foot tall, but she had a good run of terror over me for a lot of years. Please don't make kids eat food just because you can. Give them some dignity of making their own choices of what they put in their mouths. There's more important things than broccoli, like free will and choice.

I totally agree. Parents can control what food is offered, but they shouldn't control what or how much is eaten.

[marsupial]

I'm still trying to figure out if you got trolled by a very well disguised sex joke (broccoli & peaches?).

Do I dare look up broccoli and peaches in the urban dictionary?

[UtahDan]

I don't think anyone limits it to sexual purity. Just my opinion, of course. But I know it helps your argument if they do!

Maybe Super really does think that the church shouldn't tell anyone anything. I doubt it, but she is going to have to stick up for herself at this point.

[UtahDan]

A commenter on the FMH article linked to this slate.com article comparing how we present sex to American teenagers as compared to a number of European countries. It's presented as a slideshow, and compares 15 or so advertisements/posters.

That, by the way, is fascinating. I'm not sure we want a the culture of promiscuity they have but it is very, very argue to not recognize that their approach is a great deal more affective at preventing unwanted pregnancy, disease, etc. I do think American culture is too prude when it comes to sex and an abstinence only approach is not working.

[SuperGabers]

What should the church be teaching then, if not morality? Should we edit the BofM and the Bible to take out the verses on morality and chastity?

Are you trolling? If it's not the church's job to impart morals, then what exactly is the church's job?

I wonder whether it is uniquely LDS that when a lot of us say "morals" we are referring to sexual purity.

I guess a little clarity on my definition of "chastity" and "morality". Perhaps it is an LDS thing where these two words are interchangeable or maybe it is attributed to the manner in which I was raised. In terms of teaching its members don't steal, don't cheat, don't lie, etc... Yes, the Church or any church should teach such things and in retrospect, by definition, those things are morals.

So, I guess for terms of my argument, lets just say "chastity" to avoid any further confusion which I have created. My apologies.

[marsupial]

Having said that, I don't understand the problem with #5. I'm grateful my wife (and daughters) almost always try to look put-together -- clothes, exercise, diet etc.... I try to do the same. I don't get it.

I think that girls and women get enough "how to look good" tips and pressure from the outside world and that it is an unnecessary lesson to be taught at church. I remember bringing a friend to church when we had a YW lesson on hygiene and makeup, etc. My friend thought it was so weird that we had a lesson about that at church and that at her church they just talked about Jesus and helping others. Yeah, exactly. What does wearing deodorant and makeup have to do with my relationship with Christ?

[Moliere]

Do I dare look up broccoli and peaches in the urban dictionary?

Just use Danimals work computer when you do and you'll be fine.

I guess a little clarity on my definition of "chastity" and "morality". Perhaps it is an LDS thing where these two words are interchangeable or maybe it is attributed to the manner in which I was raised. In terms of teaching its members don't steal, don't cheat, don't lie, etc... Yes, the Church or any church should teach such things and in retrospect, by definition, those things are morals.

So, I guess for terms of my argument, lets just say "chastity" to avoid any further confusion which I have created. My apologies.

You are correct and I bet more people understood what you meant. In LDS lingo, don't steal & don't cheat are called STANDARDS (or so I've found out recently). In other churches those are called MORALS. We place chastity on its own plane in the LDS church, which I don't think is necessarily bad but I agree with some of what has been said in this thread.

I think that girls and women get enough "how to look good" tips and pressure from the outside world and that it is an unnecessary lesson to be taught at church. I remember bringing a friend to church when we had a YW lesson on hygiene and makeup, etc. My friend thought it was so weird that we had a lesson about that at church and that at her church they just talked about Jesus and helping others. Yeah, exactly. What does wearing deodorant and makeup have to do with my relationship with Christ?

Because your body is a temple and therefore you need to keep it clean and smelling nice (can we now merge this with my "Cherry-picking scripture verses" thread )



I'll go on record (again) and say that I had great bishops as a youth. They never asked me detailed questions about chastity. They merely asked me if I obeyed the law of chastity. This continued through to my singles wards at BYU and as a married person. Even when I was married I didn't get a condemning talk nor did I have weekly visists with the bishop to make sure I was chaste. I was a card carrying member and I knew that if I screwed up it was on me to go to my bishop to confess. In fact, the best advice I got was from my then future FIL who said to my then fiancee and me right after we got married "You will have the rest of your life to enjoy being intimate so waiting four more months shouldn't be a very long time." That was great advice and put things into perspective at the time.

[SuperGabers]

I had great bishops growing up too. None of them ever asked me any questions beyond the chastity one...

But, in retrospect, perhaps that was because I was a late bloomer and not very cute in high school. I mean, what guy would wanna hit that? Barf.

[SoonerCoug]

Religions like to focus on things like food (fasting) and sex because they are biological needs. When you can control someone to the point that they will give up a biological need, they will be subservient in every way. It is the ultimate form of control. Whether our church's approach is good or not is pretty subjective. Case in point: Our religion has evolved from one where men had as many as 50 wives to one where teenagers are taught that masturbating makes them unworthy and/or sinful. How can one religion have espoused such wildly different teachings about sex?

Discussion about masturbation at Church ought to be limited to making sure the priests wash their hands before preparing the sacrament.

[Goatnapper'96]

Do I dare look up broccoli and peaches in the urban dictionary?

Canned peaches has true significance, broccoli however can only reference the mangled mess that happens to a wrestlers' ears. I do recall a pretty good BYU female hoopster named Jen Leitner who missed a game with an earache and then was suspended the next week. Not exactly a hole I would want to hit but to each their own, I suppose.

[RobinFinderson]

Are you trolling? If it's not the church's job to impart morals, then what exactly is the church's job?

Maybe she meant that it isn't a church's job to POLICE morals.