"The Proper Prayer Language"

[LA Ute]

As to the original topic, it is true, as many of you have observed and has occurred to many missionaries serving in countries using Latin languages, that the 'familiar' or 'informal' form of 'you' is used in prayer in those languages and thus it seems that the request here not only seems old school but also seems to be based on bassackwards evidence.

A couple of thoughts: First, do any of you here really think that this language issue has escaped the notice of the GAs? Seriously? A member of the first presidency is a native German speaker for cryin' out loud! You think that it hasn't, just possibly, occurred to more than one GA over the years? It reminds me of my after dinner speaking experience (I have related this more than once; we thought we would burp as our entry in an after dinner speaking contest only to find that this stunt has been pulled by every freshman class for the last 25+ years or more before us). IOW, they know and comments here suggesting this is something they have stumbled across that the GAs haven't heard or considered are sort of amusing.

Second, I am not sure I agree with everyone on the language issue. I speak a little French and have lived in two French speaking countries and visited several others (only one for a mission) and while it is true the tu/toi form is used for children, animals, family and God, it is not true that it feels the same when used in those different ways. When praying in French tu-toi-ing God does not feel like tu-toi-ing a child. It is different. It signifies a different relationship. It signifies, at least to my ears, that we are in special and familial relationship with our Heavenly Father. This isn't necessarily less formal, it is just different.

Third, I think the goal is to make sure we keep our relationship with God different than our relationship with others. English has lost the tu-toi form. Gone. So how do we, like other languages, keep that special relationship feeling when we pray? We use the thee/thou form and it establishes that special relationship. So special we use unique words for it.

Fourth, The point, in my mind, is to make sure we appreciate and establish by action the sacred and unique relationship we have with God. I agree that God doesn't care at all, really, what words we choose as long as our heart is in the right place. But my guess is that this approach is encouraged in order to assist us in making a distinction between our daily conversations and God, so that we treat Him with respect and approach Him with reverence and with a mindset not of the world. To distinguish between the sacred and the profane, if you will. It is an aid to the weakest among us, not a necessary condition of eternal happiness.

As for me, I have never been that fond of the thee/thou form, and when younger I used to argue against it often. As I have grayed, however, I have found its encouragement more understandable even if I, personally, tend not to use it in English very often.

I agree. I also love the King James version and so that colors my appreciation of the language used there. I do think, however, as more and more people join the church who have never laid eyes on the KJV, it's going to get harder and harder to maintain the tradition of using that language. It's just too foreign to too many people.

[pelagius]

I always thought "abba" was akin to the familiar form as it is used in the Romance languages (tú, in Spanish), sort of like being on a first-name basis. "Daddy" is too colloquial. Maybe "papa?" But I concede I know nothing about this.

I am only referring to the usage of abba in the first century CE. Not the modern usage in Hebrew. I am not an expert in this at all and I am making an appeal to authority based on an academic article (it is a reputable journal). You can read the article for yourself but I don't see your suggestion as consistent with the article. But maybe many find Papa to be more of an adult form of address than I do ... The OED seems to agree with me that its mainly used by children these day (if at all). The OED indicates that Papa was originally in courtly and polite use by adults as well as children but later mainly by children.

[clackamascoug]

I think I'll stick with the Sacrament Prayer as my template. What does it hurt to pray thee/thine using a little humility and contrition in the process.

[LA Ute]

I am only referring to the usage of abba in the first century CE. Not the modern usage in Hebrew. I am not an expert in this at all and I am making an appeal to authority based on an academic article (it is a reputable journal). You can read the article for yourself but I don't see your suggestion as consistent with the article. But maybe many find Papa to be more of an adult form of address than I do ... The OED seems to agree with me that its mainly used by children these day (if at all). The OED indicates that Papa was originally in courtly and polite use by adults as well as children but later mainly by children.

Thanks, I looked at the By Common Consent post and links. Very interesting stuff. It does appear that while in Gethsemane Jesus used "abba" in some kind of special way, but to me that is a detail that we can't really know. "Daddy" has always seemed to me a little too much, but I like to think Jesus addressed his Father with a term that expressed some extra intimacy, respect, or even urgency.

[mUUser]

What an odd, and unnecessary topic to be asked to address.

Does anyone really believe that a heartfelt, humble prayer using thee & thou is better received by God than an equally heartfelt and humble prayer using you & your?

If so, why? If not, then what's the point of pushing change?

[RobinFinderson]

The best thing about the formal language of Mormon prayer, IMO, is that it prepares Mormon youth to participate in Renaissance Fairs.

[LA Ute]

The best thing about the formal language of Mormon prayer, IMO, is that it prepares Mormon youth to participate in Renaissance Fairs.

Thou mayest have a point, Robin, which is not a statement I often make unto thee.

[wuapinmon]

The best thing about the formal language of Mormon prayer, IMO, is that it prepares Mormon youth to participate in Renaissance Fairs.

The girl who took our meal cards in the MTC was named Bronwyn, and she often wore "wenchy" Ren-Fest-style tops. I was in love for 9 1/2 weeks. Her days off were like Luke 23:45.

[Jacob]

I think I'll stick with the Sacrament Prayer as my template. What does it hurt to pray thee/thine using a little humility and contrition in the process.

What does it hurt to pray you/your using a little humility and contrition in the process?