church assistance and ipad

[BigFatMeanie]

Which I do see as a huge problem.

As a member of the Church I would love to see a copy of the books.

My faith gets smaller and smaller every year.

Give me a break...

Are you talking about the local books or the books of COPB and COP?

The local units get audited multiple times a year. The quickest way for an excommunication is for a Bishop or other bishopric member to be caught misusing funds. I guarantee you your local unit isn't siphoning funds or you would quickly hear about the excommunications in the ward. There are plenty of members in your ward that can see a copy of the local books at any time. If you want to see a copy of the local books, trying increasing your faith a bit to the point where you get a leadership calling - then you can look at the books whenever you want.

As far as the COPB and COP, they also get audited multiple times a year. Oh, I know, even the auditors are in collusion with the corrupt men in power - right?

I will make the argument I've made multiple times on this board: If those with stewardship over tithing funds (The Council on the Disposition of the Tithes) are siphoning money, what they heck are they doing with it? Where are the lavish lifestyles? Where are the private jets? Where are the vacations on the beach? Oh, I know, maybe they're socking it away in Swiss bank accounts - so they can do what? Pass it on to their kids? If so, then generations of their kids are also damned disciplined to not spend any of the vast amounts of stolen money they've inherited.

Get real dude. If your faith gets smaller each year due to doctrinal reasons, so be it; however, using the disposition of tithes/offerings as an excuse is lame.

NB: Fast Offerings stay in the local unit where they are contributed. Only if there is a large annual surplus are they forwarded up the ladder. They then go to the stake unit to be used within the stake and then, if there is a large surplus, on up the ladder.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Give me a break...

Are you talking about the local books or the books of COPB and COP?

The local units get audited multiple times a year. The quickest way for an excommunication is for a Bishop or other bishopric member to be caught misusing funds. I guarantee you your local unit isn't siphoning funds or you would quickly hear about the excommunications in the ward. There are plenty of members in your ward that can see a copy of the local books at any time. If you want to see a copy of the local books, trying increasing your faith a bit to the point where you get a leadership calling - then you can look at the books whenever you want.

As far as the COPB and COP, they also get audited multiple times a year. Oh, I know, even the auditors are in collusion with the corrupt men in power - right?

I will make the argument I've made multiple times on this board: If those with stewardship over tithing funds (The Council on the Disposition of the Tithes) are siphoning money, what they heck are they doing with it? Where are the lavish lifestyles? Where are the private jets? Where are the vacations on the beach? Oh, I know, maybe they're socking it away in Swiss bank accounts - so they can do what? Pass it on to their kids? If so, then generations of their kids are also damned disciplined to not spend any of the vast amounts of stolen money they've inherited.

Get real dude. If your faith gets smaller each year due to doctrinal reasons, so be it; however, using the disposition of tithes/offerings as an excuse is lame.

NB: Fast Offerings stay in the local unit where they are contributed. Only if there is a large annual surplus are they forwarded up the ladder. They then go to the stake unit to be used within the stake and then, if there is a large surplus, on up the ladder.

BFM, this highlighted portion was a cheap shot, particularly since The Tick has served for many years in one of the most crucial local leadership positions in the Church (YM President) and by third party accounts has performed superbly well. I'm certain his struggles with faith have nothing to do with concerns over what the ward financial clerk or bishop might be doing with his contributions. We are better for having people like The Tick who struggle with faith; it's that struggle that ultimately makes all of us stronger.

But I agree the funds of the Church are managed as well or better than any very large organization (with thousands of branch offices) of which I'm aware, and the possiblity of fraud, at least on an ongoing basis, is extremely slight.

[Levin]

In short, only the children of rich people should get good jobs.

Got it.

As for the tax credit, what is a tax credit but sucking at a government teat?

The tax credit is available for joint filers earning up to $110,000. That's generally available and is not a program designed for the needy. Its purpose is to offfset childcare costs of the middle class. This is different from the programs designed for the needy, which should be just for the needy. Purposes matter. With my earning potential as an attorney, I never considered myself needy if I could borrow to pay for my children and food with the knowledge that I could pay it back later. And that's what I did; I borrowed.

Another irony is that the burgeoning Medicaid rolls are sending shock waves through the rest of the governmental system. Look at the pie charts of state budgets. The more we spend in Medicaid the less we can spend in education, to take one example. The budgets of state universities are being shredded because of Medicaid costs.

[Levin]

Were your student loans federally guaranteed/insured?

Yes. But the purposes of programs matter, wouldn't you agree?

Mortgage deduction = encourge home ownership

Subsidized student loans = encourage receiving education

Medicaid = provide health insurance for those who can't afford it

WIC = for women, infants, and children who don't make enough money to buy the basic food staples.

Purposes matter. I felt I fit the purpose for which subsidized student loans was designed. But not Medicaid. Even though we were poor students, my earning potential was large, my school included in its budget costs for health care, and so I could borrow to pay for it.

[doctorcoug]

my school included in its budget costs for health care, and so I could borrow to pay for it.

I'm glad your school provided you with enough assistance. Mine didn't. The only married with kids that I knew of that weren't on gvt assistance (LDS or not), were not paying tuition because of parental support.

You need to take your self-righteousness to the cleaners.

[SoonerCoug]

I don't really care about WIC or whether people use it, but there is yet another path that people aren't discussing: delay reproduction until AFTER you have a job. Then you definitely don't need WIC.

[Spicy McHaggis]

I wonder what percentage of those who were on some sort of gov assistance are not teabaggers, complainging about the gov spending. I'll bet it's fairly high.

[SoonerCoug]

Medicare (CMS) is currently raping doctors (and has been since the Clinton Administration).

Boo hoo.

[The Fourth Nephite]

When I was a young Elder's Quorum President I was just out of school and paying off 100K in student loans and credit cards. I worked my rear end off and lived frugally. I also paid a decent fast offering.

The Bishop had me helping him assess ward welfare needs. Almost every single home or apartment I went into to do that, had much nicer stuff than mine had. Bigger, better TVs, full premium cable, new computers, cell phones, etc, etc, etc.

It annoyed me a little, but I figured in a few years they'd still be stupid but I'd be out of debt and making good money.

[Levin]

I'm glad your school provided you with enough assistance. Mine didn't. The only married with kids that I knew of that weren't on gvt assistance (LDS or not), were not paying tuition because of parental support.

You need to take your self-righteousness to the cleaners.

My school didn't provide any assistance -- it's that school loans are based on the budgets set by the school, and you can borrow up to the budget set by the school. And the school included the costs for health insurance in the school budgets.

Try to keep up.

[SoonerCoug]

My school didn't provide any assistance -- it's that school loans are based on the budgets set by the school, and you can borrow up to the budget set by the school. And the school included the costs for health insurance in the school budgets.

Try to keep up.

Cut him some slack. He is being raped by Medicare. Never mind the sick elderly folks who need healthcare. Doctors are being RAPED.

[Uncle Ted]

I don't really care about WIC or whether people use it, but there is yet another path that people aren't discussing: delay reproduction until AFTER you have a job. Then you definitely don't need WIC.

But the church leaders teach not to delay having kids...

President Ezra Taft Benson taught that young couples should not postpone having children...

And now are wondering why LDS singles are waiting so long to get married.

[doctorcoug]

My school didn't provide any assistance -- it's that school loans are based on the budgets set by the school, and you can borrow up to the budget set by the school. And the school included the costs for health insurance in the school budgets.

Try to keep up.

You think I'm that stupid? I've probably taken out double the loans that you have. I'm not an idiot.

[doctorcoug]

Cut him some slack. He is being raped by Medicare. Never mind the sick elderly folks who need healthcare. Doctors are being RAPED.

The poor politics of the 90's has led to poor access to healthcare. I saw a pediatric patient today that needs a quick specialist consult. However, the family has medicaid...so the soonest is 3 months. If that child had insurance, he would be seen tomorrow, maybe the next day. Why? Because CMS is charity care.

[wuapinmon]

In law school, many of these students were going to earn $160K within a year. Moreover, the school included within its budget an allotment for health insurance and food -- the budget that determined how much in student loans you could take out. And so those with families had a larger allowable budget. We took out more loans to pay for our children and food instead of going on Medicaid and WIC. So did every other non-LDS family we knew. It was the Medicaid and WIC LDS cartel, at least within the law school community, that perpetuated the cultural reliance on welfare.

Each situation is certainly unique and each family must evaluate for itself whether it is the right thing to take government welfare. But for those with large earning potentials, and with school budgets that allowed for increased borrowing to pay for things like children and food, I think the scales weigh more heavily toward self-reliance.

For my friends going into the humanities or teaching, I think the calculus was probably different.

But there are plenty of doctors and lawyers who are quickly paying off their student loans without a problem but who were on welfare during graduate school, and who lived very comfortable lives in graduate school.

My ancestors would only have reverted to governmental support over their dead bodies. Many worked two jobs so that they could support their families through graduate school (night shifts and weekend shifts). I couldn't do it and look at them in the eyes.

But it's a new age, a new generation, a new ethos.

Too proud to take help? Your posts sounds like pride that you were 'tough enough" to it on your own, like so many blowhards I know.

Really? Couldn't you have taken out more student loans to pay for health insurance? At my law school, health insurance was a part of the budget that determined how much a student could borrow. And I know that is how it is, by federal regulation, at all schools. Was it just a choice not to borrow more in student loans?

The govt can subsidize the loans or the healthcare. I'm sure it's better for all that they did the healthcare.

Lol. LOL. LOL! No, no I couldn't. And to be clear, I wasn't on Medicaid. I paid my own health insurance through school. It was the rest of the family that was on it.

This was also my situation. It's also my current one.

I think a lot of people say "can't" or "I borrowed all I could" when they don't really mean it. It's about choices and the type of people we choose to be. For some people some values are more important than others.

Right there, I lost all respect for you in this thread. If you mean this in a nice way, it doesn't come across that way at all.

If you want to see a copy of the local books, trying increasing your faith a bit to the point where you get a leadership calling - then you can look at the books whenever you want.

I was with you until this comment. You can't aspire to a calling in good faith.

I'm glad your school provided you with enough assistance. Mine didn't. The only married with kids that I knew of that weren't on gvt assistance (LDS or not), were not paying tuition because of parental support.

You need to take your self-righteousness to the cleaners.

So say we all.