Has illegal immigration been talked.....

[byu71]

I don't see loyalty being a big issue either.

You guys probably think I am a loyal Canadian, but I doubt you think it is causing problems with me living here in the states.

I think the issue is can they adequately interact in society and ultimately can they contribute to maintaining and raising the value of that society.

Obviously language is a big issue in this. If everyone is speaking different languages, there isn't going to be much societal interaction.

Now there is a country that is doing well and has a good section of the country speaking another language. Are there any problems that arise between the French speaking folks and the others.

Are you becoming a citizen of the US? If so, would your loyalties if called on lie with the US or Canada.

[beefytee]

Now there is a country that is doing well and has a good section of the country speaking another language. Are there any problems that arise between the French speaking folks and the others.

Are you becoming a citizen of the US? If so, would your loyalties if called on lie with the US or Canada.

I'm already a US citizen.

My way of thinking is that I need to contribute where ever I'm living and do what I can to help make it as good a place to live as possible. For the indefinite future that is in the US, so I guess you can say that my loyalty is with the US.

The whole notion of loyalty seems ridiculous to me though. A country does not make a man. Many of us have been fortunate enough to be born into these favorable circumstances and yes we are lucky, but mankind is pretty much the same where ever you go and we really should be looking out for everyone no matter what country they live in or come from. I don't see the point of loyalty to a certain country.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I'm already a US citizen.

My way of thinking is that I need to contribute where ever I'm living and do what I can to help make it as good a place to live as possible. For the indefinite future that is in the US, so I guess you can say that my loyalty is with the US.

The whole notion of loyalty seems ridiculous to me though. A country does not make a man. Many of us have been fortunate enough to be born into these favorable circumstances and yes we are lucky, but mankind is pretty much the same where ever you go and we really should be looking out for everyone no matter what country they live in or come from. I don't see the point of loyalty to a certain country.

This deserves recognition as one of the more profound and absolutely correct statements of the day. Well said, Beefy.

[beefytee]

This deserves recognition as one of the more profound and absolutely correct statements of the day. Well said, Beefy.

Thanks.

I had to change my avatar after writing it. My old one was too Canadian.

[byu71]

I'm already a US citizen.

My way of thinking is that I need to contribute where ever I'm living and do what I can to help make it as good a place to live as possible. For the indefinite future that is in the US, so I guess you can say that my loyalty is with the US.

The whole notion of loyalty seems ridiculous to me though. A country does not make a man. Many of us have been fortunate enough to be born into these favorable circumstances and yes we are lucky, but mankind is pretty much the same where ever you go and we really should be looking out for everyone no matter what country they live in or come from. I don't see the point of loyalty to a certain country.

I can really appreciate your sentiments. I would hate to come across as a person who doesn't believe "we are all children of God".

It does seem there are some bad actors that come along though. I guess I can't for instance blame the German people, it was all Hitler's fault. After the Romans accepted Christianity as the state religion, I don't understand how they fell after that. I think at some point I will really study the fall of great empires and see if there is a common thread or it just happens for totally different reasons and there is no common thread.

Anyway, so everyone doesn't think ill of me, I have given to charities that help people outside of the US. I do give through US sponsored agencies though.

[The_Tick]

We have a deaf branch in our area. I've never been and probably never will, but it is interesting to see how it works. Probably the best part about it is that it brings together many members who are in the same situation (deaf) and they can relate much better than if they were in a typical family ward. I can see how this would help Spanish speaking members. As for Polys, most of the ones I've met speak English so I don't quite get why there are still Poly wards.

I served 1/4 of my mission in the ASL program. We had a Deaf Branch that we covered. IT WAS HORRIBLE.

There is only 1 reason why you create a Deaf Branch and don't have a grip of them folks in a Hearing ward...the kids.

Deaf Sacrament meeting is like sitting on the Tarmac at the airport. Typically both parents were Deaf. The kids yelled and screamed like crazy. Parents had no idea.

But it was similar to what has been posted previously. Branch President was Deaf. Councilors and Exec. Sec. were hearing. They and their families were brought into the branch from different wards to help officiate.

After I married my wife and was living back up in Washington, we had a visit with a High Councilman who asked if I would be willing to accept a calling in the Deaf branch and if I would be willing to have my records (along with my family) to that branch. I wasn't about to subject my kids to that. (The Stake wasn't really looking for a yes or a no, it was going to happen.)

So we moved to California.

[fusnik]

While that makes sense, I do wonder about the effects on the overall society when you have a subset of the culture that you basically tell, you don't need to fit into the whole culture.

Does anyone know if the immigrants of the past had to find a way to become a part of the greater culture. Are we going to have a greater chance of becoming very "us vs them". Countries within a Country. How has this worked historically in other countries.

You aware they have 'international' wards in foreign countries? White wards if you will.

[fusnik]

If there was any arizona-like talk about immigration in our stake I think our spanish ward would be half its size.

Where are your in-laws, fusnik?

Utah.

They don't live in the UC but live in an area with similar caucasian and mormon concentrations.

[byu71]

You aware they have 'international' wards in foreign countries? White wards if you will.

Are these wards made up mainly of people who have come to that Country from another Country and plan on staying permanently. If not, you are making a feloneous (spelling) comparison.

I can buy some reasons and explanations for the Spanish wards in the US. However, the "they have American or White wards in foreign countries" is a bogus comparison.

Now if you can show me some statistic that shows the bulk of the Spanish ward members are here as visitors (long or short term). I will admit fault and concede to your comparison.

Just because I am old, don't think you can just blow bull shit responses by me.

[Indy Coug]

You aware they have 'international' wards in foreign countries? White wards if you will.

No, they're English-speaking wards. Since English is the international language, that can result in Brits, Americans, Africans, Filipinos and many other nationalities showing up at the same "white ward".

[fusnik]

Are these wards made up mainly of people who have come to that Country from another Country and plan on staying permanently. If not, you are making a feloneous (spelling) comparison.

I can buy some reasons and explanations for the Spanish wards in the US. However, the "they have American or White wards in foreign countries" is a bogus comparison.

Now if you can show me some statistic that shows the bulk of the Spanish ward members are here as visitors (long or short term). I will admit fault and concede to your comparison.

Just because I am old, don't think you can just blow bull shit responses by me.

Most illegals I know plan on returning to their mother countries at some point.

My experience with mormon illegals is as follows:

Parents come to USA illegally
Have babies who are citizens
Go to minority wards
Kids grow up and assimilate into American culture
Kids have babies
Parents bounce back to country of origin

[creekster]

No, they're English-speaking wards. Since English is the international language, that can result in Brits, Americans, Africans, Filipinos and many other nationalities showing up at the same "white ward".

That is my experience too.

[byu71]

Most illegals I know plan on returning to their mother countries at some point.

My experience with mormon illegals is as follows:

Parents come to USA illegally
Have babies who are citizens
Go to minority wards
Kids grow up and assimilate into American culture
Kids have babies
Parents bounce back to country of origin

Well then, if you are correct, I apologize. I have very, very limited experience. Based on that experience, not only are they staying, but now they are working out a way for the parents to come here legally.

Now it makes sense for the parents, because now all their kids and grandkids live in America. Great family and part of the reason I struggle with this issue. By the way, none of them go to a Spanish ward, they go to regular wards with their husbands. At least the part of the family I know about their Sunday activities.

[falafel]

71, I'm confused about what your position is here. Are you upset that the church is apparently supporting, in some small way, illegal immigration by setting up, for example, spanish-speaking wards?

In my view, the Church shouldn't consider the political ramifications or how they structure their congregations. Instead, it should look for the best way to ensure that its members are taught and instructed in a manner that most easily conveys the message of the gospel to them. If that includes creating whole branches or wards or stakes that operate in a minority language, then so be it. Whether the members of those congregations intend to stay indefinitely, are just visiting for a prolonged period, or are just vacationing, shouldn't have anything to do with the decision IMO.

[Pheidippides]

I think the U.S. is a country with many cultures. To say that immigrants should be expected to assimilate into the american "culture" is really misleading. There is no one "culture" here. West coast culture is different than northeast culture, which is different than souther culture, which is different than Texas culture, which is different than northwest culture, which is different than Hawaiian culture, etc., etc. (Oklahoman culture is exactly the same as Texas culture, however). And of course, there are many many sub-cultures operating within the regional cultures. With all these varied cultures, how can new immigrants be expected to drop their own? Are we really going to say "we have 3000 of our own cultures, so we don't need yours"?

Wow - the rare Nik AND Babs double troll. Impressive, and well done!