I learned in church today

[byu71]

The lesson also has the following segment:

This brings to mind two question I really don't know the definitive answer to.

1) Is there any commandment you don't keep and can still get a Temple Recommend?

2) Can a young man get a Temple Recommend if he hasn't paid tithing? Does he have to catch up or how many months does he have to pay tithing before he can qualify to go?

[Parrot Head]

I learned how to use MLS and I'm glad that we arrived a little late because that way we didn't have to sing the anthem of northern aggression.

[Moliere]

The lesson also has the following segment:

I just point out that President Monson chose not to serve a mission and he's now the prophet.

[LA Ute]

I just point out that President Monson chose not to serve a mission and he's now the prophet.

Well, he did have that World War II thing going on....

[byu71]

Well, he did have that World War II thing going on....

That and I don't think it was a commandment back then.

[Portland Ute]

I just point out that President Monson chose not to serve a mission and he's now the prophet.

The Young Men's President and Bishop particularly like it when I point out prominent people that did not serve missions.

Also, the rhetoric that "a mission is a commandment" came long after President Monson's time.

The manual goes on to say:

President Spencer W. Kimball said:

“The question is frequently asked: Should every young man fill a mission? And the answer has been given by the Lord. It is ‘Yes.’ Every young man should fill a mission. …

“… Every man should also pay his tithing. Every man should observe the Sabbath. Every man should attend his meetings. Every man should marry in the temple.”

President Ezra Taft Benson said:

“The Lord wants every young man to serve a full-time mission. … Not only should a mission be regarded as a priesthood duty, but every young man should look forward to this experience with great joy and anticipation. What a privilege—what a sacred privilege—to serve the Lord full time for two years with all your heart, might, mind, and strength. You can do nothing more important. …

It would seem pretty clear that the church in our days is pretty specific that EVERY young man should serve a full-time mission. I didn't make the manual, the LDS church publishes it. It's pretty clear that, officially, the Church encourages ALL young men to serve two year, full-time missions.

Except for the fact that the LDS owned publications publish stuff like this, which really seems to indicate that the more talented amongst us are exempted:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...tual-side.html

It really seems like the D News wants to make sure everyone knows that you can choose to forego a 2 year mission and still be really, really spiritual and do missionary work and spread the gospel.

There have been similar things done with Archuletta and Jimmer on KSL, etc.

I'm to the point that the lessons like the one I was supposed to give make me a bit sick.

It's as if the poor shlubs amongst us are supposed to sacrifice 2 years of time, school, income, chicks, music, family, etc., but the super talented are exempt and glorified.

The Church, IMO, either needs to drop the hard line stuff with the general body of the Church OR quit feeding into the celebrities that haven't gone on missions. Quit apologizing. Quit telling us how spiritual these people are and that they are spreading the word through their celebrity. Stick to reporting them as athletes and as entertainers. That's what they are. Don't get into the apologetics. American Idol is not a mission. Basketball is not a mission.

It really does seem like a double standard and the kids these days see right through it.

I have no problem with kids, Jimmer and Archuletta included, not serving missions.

I have a problem with the hardline talks and lessons that the Church puts out there but then comes out with KSL, Des News or Mormon Times articles/stories that tell us what great spiritual giants and great missionaries these people are.

I finished my lesson by saying, essentially, "Now, let's look at a big bigger picture. We all know people that didn't go on missions. A mission is NOT a saving ordinance. Those people can still take part in the saving ordinance of the gospel. Let's not judge those that choose to forego a mission."

I guess I contradicted the lesson, President Benson, Kimball and the Seventy.

[RC Vikings]

I gave the lesson in Priest Quorum today.

It was called: "Every Young Man Should Serve a Mission."

Just keep teaching the YW that they should only want to marry an RM and these lessons can be done away with in YM's.

[Moliere]

Well, he did have that World War II thing going on....

He left for the service when he was 18 and got back when he was 19 (war was over). He spent about 9 months in the service. After getting back he went right back to school at the UofU . If he really wanted to, he could have left for a mission when he was still 19.

That and I don't think it was a commandment back then.

This is the answer, but it opens up a whole new slew of questions about the Gospel.

Ultimately I just tell the priests that I don't care what others have done. They should do their own praying and pondering and come to their own conclusion on whether or not they should serve a mission. I then tell them all the great things I learned on my mission, both spiritually and temporally, and how great of a blessing it was for me.

[Uncle Ted]

He left for the service when he was 18 and got back when he was 19 (war was over). He spent about 9 months in the service. After getting back he went right back to school at the UofU . If he really wanted to, he could have left for a mission when he was still 19.

He did get a MBA from BYU.

I wonder if the fact Monson was still in the Naval reserves had anything to do with the reason he didn't go a mission. It is my understanding he was in the reserves right up until just before the korean war.

[wuapinmon]

I learned how to use MLS and I'm glad that we arrived a little late because that way we didn't have to sing the anthem of northern aggression.

Your ward sang "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" on the 4th of July (well the 3rd)? I would've walked out. False indignation.

[LA Ute]

He left for the service when he was 18 and got back when he was 19 (war was over). He spent about 9 months in the service. After getting back he went right back to school at the U of U. If he really wanted to, he could have left for a mission when he was still 19.

This may well be true, I don't know. But since we are at this level of detail, I wonder how easy it really was to go on a mission immediately after WWII, or how long it took the church to ramp up the missionary program. Was it really all up to him? It was just a different era. Dallin Oaks didn't serve a mission either - during the Korean War
/Cold War era the church was limited in the number of draft-age men it could call.

I don't see how all these historical variations on how the missionary program has been run opens up a new set of gospel questions.

[RC Vikings]

This may well be true, I don't know. But since we are at this level of detail, I wonder how easy it really was to go on a mission immediately after WWII, or how long it took the church to ramp up the missionary program. Was it really all up to him? It was just a different era. Dallin Oaks didn't serve a mission either - during the Korean War
/Cold War era the church was limited in the number of draft-age men it could call.

My father served in the military and spent some time in Japan right after World War II and was called up again at the start of the Korean War. He also spent 2 1/2 years on a mission in Texas. It could be done. I might also add that he graduated in Engineering from Utah State all before the age of thirty.

[Moliere]

This may well be true, I don't know. But since we are at this level of detail, I wonder how easy it really was to go on a mission immediately after WWII, or how long it took the church to ramp up the missionary program. Was it really all up to him? It was just a different era. Dallin Oaks didn't serve a mission either - during the Korean War
/Cold War era the church was limited in the number of draft-age men it could call.

I don't see how all these historical variations on how the missionary program has been run opens up a new set of gospel questions.

I'm sure if he would have fasted and prayed he would have found a way to go....

But I think I made my point. Each circumstance is an individual circumstance and should be looked at as such. I don't like the hard-line "everyone should go on a mission or else" approach but I do like the "everyone should prepare to go on a mission" since it implies keeping ourselves worthy and doing what is needed if we are called.

[Donuthole]

My father served in the military and spent some time in Japan right after World War II and was called up again at the start of the Korean War. He also spent 2 1/2 years on a mission in Texas. It could be done. I might also add that he graduated in Engineering from Utah State all before the age of thirty.

You grew up the son of a military man who later became an engineer? This explains a lot about your rebellious ways.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I'm sure if he would have fasted and prayed he would have found a way to go....

But I think I made my point. Each circumstance is an individual circumstance and should be looked at as such. I don't like the hard-line "everyone should go on a mission or else" approach but I do like the "everyone should prepare to go on a mission" since it implies keeping ourselves worthy and doing what is needed if we are called.

When it comes to the Church, LA Ute is like a defense attorney. He isn't trying to prove his case, he's just looking to create reasonable doubt in yours.