I learned in church today

[Jeff Lebowski]

Did you know that even Satan chose not to be gay?!

No. I haven't learned that in church yet.

[bluegoose]

Wards with large primary and/or YM/YW will find many of the programs severely underfunded. My wife is the Primary President over a decent size group of kids and we have 50+ active youth. Our Bishop cares a lot about the budget since there isn't enough of it. Counting months are part of the discussion.

Maybe. We have about 20 youth and about 40 in the primary. Not huge numbers, but a ward across town has about 75 active youth and they seem to be fine. Ward budgets seem to be like most family budgets - If you have it, you spend it. If you don't, you don't.

[Bo Diddley]

By choosing not to have a body, he probably thought sex was overrated.

[Pelado]

Did you know that even Satan chose not to be gay?!

How can you be sure? Have you ever googled "gay Satan"?

[Commando]

By choosing not to have a body, he probably thought sex was overrated.

Pic of Satan:

[Dwight Schr-ute]

How can you be sure? Have you ever googled "gay Satan"?

I don't need Google. I get all of my information from world leaders.

Even Satan wasn’t Gay, he chose to approach naked Eve instead of naked Adam.
-Robert Mugabe

http://www.nigeriannewspapers.today/...-sex-marriage/

[falafel]

I don't need Google. I get all of my information from world leaders.



http://www.nigeriannewspapers.today/...-sex-marriage/

That only shows that Satan thought that Adam was not gay.

[Pelado]

I don't need Google. I get all of my information from world leaders.



http://www.nigeriannewspapers.today/...-sex-marriage/

That only shows that Satan thought that Adam was not gay.

He's probably bi.

[Solon]

It isn't averaged across the quarter. But quarterly reports are due in January, April, July, October for the just-ending quarter. Included are the sacrament meeting attendance figures, and the instructions on that are pretty straightforward: "Record the average sacrament meeting attendance for the last month of the quarter. Include in your count all individuals who attended sacrament meeting, members and nonmembers alike." So a bump in attendance in March, June, September, and December will improve the numbers, while a bump in attendance in any other month won't. And the ward's budget allocation is literally based on Butts In Seats.

Basically, the budget allowance is based on attendance at sacrament meeting, YM/YW meetings, and Senior Primary (8-11). The "basic allowance" is the sacrament meeting number: $12/person/quarter, or $48 annually. The "Additional budget allowance" is based on a 2004 letter, and includes money for YM/YW and Primary. YM/YW attendance adds $12.50/person/quarter ($50 annually), Primary adds $6.25/person aged 8-11/quarter ($25 annually). Also, YSAs whose records are in the ward also add a maximum of $6.25/person/quarter, based on the overall sacrament meeting attendance percentage.

So, say your quarterly report shows the following numbers: sacrament meeting attendance of 250 out of 500 members of record, 30 youth attending meetings, 50 children aged 8-11 attending Primary, and 10 Young Single Adults. That gives you (250*12)+(12.5*30)+(6.25*50)+(6.25*10*50%) = $3,718.75. This is the largest possible budget allowance for your ward based on that quarter. Assuming 4 quarters of basically static numbers, the annual amount sent to the stake based on your ward would be $3,718.75*4 = $14,875. From that amount, the stake will withhold some for stake expenses and pass through whatever is left. The stake may also decides that special needs exist, either in your ward or in another and might allocate more (or less) based on the needs of other wards in the stake.

In theory, ward leaders would plan things that draw in large numbers of folk (farewells, primary programs) in a counting month. In practice, that takes more organizational foresight than most wards are capable of.

Thanks, LV (and everyone else).
the ward had about 200 more people than usual during this primary program. Lots of less-actives & visiting grandparents.

[pellegrino]

It isn't averaged across the quarter. But quarterly reports are due in January, April, July, October for the just-ending quarter. Included are the sacrament meeting attendance figures, and the instructions on that are pretty straightforward: "Record the average sacrament meeting attendance for the last month of the quarter. Include in your count all individuals who attended sacrament meeting, members and nonmembers alike." So a bump in attendance in March, June, September, and December will improve the numbers, while a bump in attendance in any other month won't. And the ward's budget allocation is literally based on Butts In Seats.

Basically, the budget allowance is based on attendance at sacrament meeting, YM/YW meetings, and Senior Primary (8-11). The "basic allowance" is the sacrament meeting number: $12/person/quarter, or $48 annually. The "Additional budget allowance" is based on a 2004 letter, and includes money for YM/YW and Primary. YM/YW attendance adds $12.50/person/quarter ($50 annually), Primary adds $6.25/person aged 8-11/quarter ($25 annually). Also, YSAs whose records are in the ward also add a maximum of $6.25/person/quarter, based on the overall sacrament meeting attendance percentage.

So, say your quarterly report shows the following numbers: sacrament meeting attendance of 250 out of 500 members of record, 30 youth attending meetings, 50 children aged 8-11 attending Primary, and 10 Young Single Adults. That gives you (250*12)+(12.5*30)+(6.25*50)+(6.25*10*50%) = $3,718.75. This is the largest possible budget allowance for your ward based on that quarter. Assuming 4 quarters of basically static numbers, the annual amount sent to the stake based on your ward would be $3,718.75*4 = $14,875. From that amount, the stake will withhold some for stake expenses and pass through whatever is left. The stake may also decides that special needs exist, either in your ward or in another and might allocate more (or less) based on the needs of other wards in the stake.

In theory, ward leaders would plan things that draw in large numbers of folk (farewells, primary programs) in a counting month. In practice, that takes more organizational foresight than most wards are capable of.

that's so depressing. That example ward you're using probably brings in its annual budget in a week or two worth of donations, yet the formula forces them to work miracles on a shoestring. I'm all for distributing donations among the saints, but I have to ask myself, where in the hell does the money go?

[falafel]

that's so depressing. That example ward you're using probably brings in its annual budget in a week or two worth of donations, yet the formula forces them to work miracles on a shoestring. I'm all for distributing donations among the saints, but I have to ask myself, where in the hell does the money go?

South America and the Philippines.

[Moliere]

South America and the Philippines.

Which is why it bothers me less. I don't mind subsidizing their chapels and temples. Plus, no one sticks to the ward budget. As YM Pres we were expected to work miracles on our small budget. When I was "forced" to pay for something and we didn't have the funds for reimbursement, I just deducted the expense from my tithing.

[pellegrino]

South America and the Philippines.

not buying it entirely. Sure, North America subsidizes their buildings, but they're also bringing in some money and their budgets are set by the same formula. I think it's entirely plausible to suggest that outside of North America the buildings owned by the church are subsidized, but I think the average unit will collect enough in offerings to contribute significantly to the budget that COB sends back.

Here are a few things we know or can extrapolate about how a unit's income and expenditures work

1. The only real expense any unit has is the building they meet in. I know from a relative who works in COB that the average cost of maintenance on a building is about $40K per annum.

Most buildings in the Mormon corridor host three wards. Wherever geography permits, this is the preferred arrangement, which greatly reduces a ward's expenses.

2. Employing conservative estimates about the number of full tithe payers per ward (~50) and median annual income (~$50K) means that the average ward has a gross revenue of ~ $250K per annum.

3. With these estimates, the average ward has a net annual prophit of ~$195K, more if they share a building.

There are ~17,000 wards in North America. You do the math. Does anyone actually believe that the cost of running the church overseas costs as much as the American church brings in?

Where does the money go?

Edit: there are only ~29,000 LDS units in the whole world. Once again, do the math and tell me how it makes sense to say that the church is spending billions on ~12,000 units overseas when it only costs about $935 mil to run their American counterparts.

[LVAllen]

not buying it entirely. Sure, North America subsidizes their buildings, but they're also bringing in some money and their budgets are set by the same formula. I think it's entirely plausible to suggest that outside of North America the buildings owned by the church are subsidized, but I think the average unit will collect enough in offerings to contribute significantly to the budget that COB sends back.

Here are a few things we know or can extrapolate about how a unit's income and expenditures work

1. The only real expense any unit has is the building they meet in. I know from a relative who works in COB that the average cost of maintenance on a building is about $40K per annum.

Most buildings in the Mormon corridor host three wards. Wherever geography permits, this is the preferred arrangement, which greatly reduces a ward's expenses.

2. Employing conservative estimates about the number of full tithe payers per ward (~50) and median annual income (~$50K) means that the average ward has a gross revenue of ~ $250K per annum.

3. With these estimates, the average ward has a net annual prophit of ~$195K, more if they share a building.

There are ~17,000 wards in North America. You do the math. Does anyone actually believe that the cost of running the church overseas costs as much as the American church brings in?

Where does the money go?

Edit: there are only ~29,000 LDS units in the whole world. Once again, do the math and tell me how it makes sense to say that the church is spending billions on ~12,000 units overseas when it only costs about $55K to run its American counterpart.

Air conditioning for the southwest saints.

[pellegrino]

Air conditioning for the southwest saints.

That's the spirit!