Seminary False Doctrine

[Clark Addison]

It's been totally debunked. Everything about it regarding race and the nature of the priesthood ban were wrong. Unfortunately, the talk still rears its ugly head occassionaly these days. Its a sad vestage of a period where people (including leaders like Dyer) filled uncertain areas regarding policy/doctrine with culturally conditioned tripe.

Here is a quote from Elder Holland adressing talks like this generally:

It is an interesting quote from Holland, since, as circumspect and conservative as GAs generally are, this is equivelent to him basically saying "Anything said about Race by GAs pre 1978 was pulled out of their asses"

[RobinFinderson]

One clear-cut position is that the folklore must never be perpetuated. ... I have to concede to my earlier colleagues. ... They, I'm sure, in their own way, were doing the best they knew to give shape to [the policy], to give context for it, to give even history to it. All I can say is however well intended the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong...

The Holland quote above represents entirely different way of viewing the prophets and their counsel from what is most commonly understood and perpetuated by the rank and file members of the church. The vagueness about what does and does not constitute doctrine and counsel creates what looks like to me (the inside outsider) a deliberate ecumenical approach to Mormon belief.

It is always a relief when leaders of the church can look at something as obviously wrong as the racist past, and call it what it is. But I would think that can get treacherous pretty fast. If the counsel gets finally viewed as a cultural preference as opposed to God's will, then what does the church have left? Just the ordinances and authority, no? How many people out there are are looking for ordinances and authority as their primary goal in developing a spiritual life?

[Sleeping in EQ]

The Holland quote above represents entirely different way of viewing the prophets and their counsel from what is most commonly understood and perpetuated by the rank and file members of the church. The vagueness about what does and does not constitute doctrine and counsel creates what looks like to me (the inside outsider) a deliberate ecumenical approach to Mormon belief.

It is always a relief when leaders of the church can look at something as obviously wrong as the racist past, and call it what it is. But I would think that can get treacherous pretty fast. If the counsel gets finally viewed as a cultural preference as opposed to God's will, then what does the church have left? Just the ordinances and authority, no? How many people out there are are looking for ordinances and authority as their primary goal in developing a spiritual life?

The view Holland expressed seems to me to be a "minority" view amongst the rank and file of the LDS Church, but it's hardly off the map.

[Clark Addison]

My daughter is a freshman in high school this year. She came home from seminary mad the other day. Her teacher was riled up because she had seen something about a Gay-Lesbian Club at a local high school, and went off on how bad things were these days for a bit, then said:

"When I was in high school, any kids who were known to be gay got beat up. Don't they do that anymore?"

The next 10 or 15 minutes was spent by the teacher and some of the students reminiscing about the good old days when you were allowed to beat the queer out of people.

[Jeff Lebowski]

My daughter is a freshman in high school this year. She came home from seminary mad the other day. Her teacher was riled up because she had seen something about a Gay-Lesbian Club at a local high school, and went off on how bad things were these days for a bit, then said:

"When I was in high school, any kids who were known to be gay got beat up. Don't they do that anymore?"

The next 10 or 15 minutes was spent by the teacher and some of the students reminiscing about the good old days when you were allowed to beat the queer out of people.

If that were my daughter, I would be raising hell. That is outrageous.

[Uncle Ted]

My daughter is a freshman in high school this year. She came home from seminary mad the other day. Her teacher was riled up because she had seen something about a Gay-Lesbian Club at a local high school, and went off on how bad things were these days for a bit, then said:

"When I was in high school, any kids who were known to be gay got beat up. Don't they do that anymore?"

The next 10 or 15 minutes was spent by the teacher and some of the students reminiscing about the good old days when you were allowed to beat the queer out of people.

It's time to pull out the Boyd K. Packer pamphlet and set this teacher straight...

http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/33382_eng.pdf?lang=eng

[Clark Addison]

If that were my daughter, I would be raising hell. That is outrageous.

Yeah, I am considering what I would like my response to be. I htink my wife would like it to be "nothing". She was pretty upset as well, but she is not a boat-rocker. I on the other hand, haven't been able to help but notice that in the 3 years since I confronted my bishop about teaching false doctrine, I have received absolutely zero new callings, so there is definitely some incentive to keep it up.

[Shaka]

Yeah, I am considering what I would like my response to be. I htink my wife would like it to be "nothing". She was pretty upset as well, but she is not a boat-rocker. I on the other hand, haven't been able to help but notice that in the 3 years since I confronted my bishop about teaching false doctrine, I have received absolutely zero new callings, so there is definitely some incentive to keep it up.

You're living the dream.

[creekster]

Yeah, I am considering what I would like my response to be. I htink my wife would like it to be "nothing". She was pretty upset as well, but she is not a boat-rocker. I on the other hand, haven't been able to help but notice that in the 3 years since I confronted my bishop about teaching false doctrine, I have received absolutely zero new callings, so there is definitely some incentive to keep it up.

Last year my son returned from seminary one day upset that the isntructor had stated that there was no evidence of evolution and that it was a sham theory. I told my son I would be happy not only to talk to the instructor but also to go to class with him and offer an alternative viewpoint. My son recoiled at this thought but was interested in me making sure he was up to speed on the issues so he could present them effectively. He then took on the instructor on this topic and eventually, as I underdstand it, the instructor left it alone. Thus the topic was dealt with, my son got a taste of defending himself against wacky ideas, and I didnt have to talk to anyone. Win-win-win from my POV. The only problem is that I do still have a calling. I need to be more addison-aggressive, I guess.

[Uncle Ted]

Yeah, I am considering what I would like my response to be. I htink my wife would like it to be "nothing". She was pretty upset as well, but she is not a boat-rocker. I on the other hand, haven't been able to help but notice that in the 3 years since I confronted my bishop about teaching false doctrine, I have received absolutely zero new callings, so there is definitely some incentive to keep it up.

Whatever you do be sure to take your first edition copy of Mormon Doctrine and be waving it in the air while you are talking and making your point.

[TripletDaddy]

Last year my son returned from seminary one day upset that the isntructor had stated that there was no evidence of evolution and that it was a sham theory. I told my son I would be happy not only to talk to the instructor but also to go to class with him and offer an alternative viewpoint. My son recoiled at this thought but was interested in me making sure he was up to speed on the issues so he could present them effectively.

Your son was probably worried that you were going to show up at Seminary and do the haka.

[creekster]

Your son was probably worried that you were going to show up at Seminary and do the haka.

Nah, that would never work!

[Jeff Lebowski]

Your son was probably worried that you were going to show up at Seminary and do the haka.

Hey! It works for the All Blacks.

[TripletDaddy]

Nah, that would never work!

Ask all the black people!

[TripletDaddy]

Hey! It works for the All Blacks.

oh, I misread that