If your spouse left the church

[SoonerCoug]

Really? By what measure?

Global warming and a modern mass extinction--two facts that some don't accept despite the evidence.

[JohnnyLingo]

Global warming and a modern mass extinction--two facts that some don't accept despite the evidence.

You mean climate change.

[Jarid in Cedar]

We are commanded to replenish an earth ....

But not single handedly.

[cowboy]

Global warming and a modern mass extinction...

And there is irrefutable evidence that these phenomena are caused by our relative population?

[Shaka]

Global warming and a modern mass extinction--two facts that some don't accept despite the evidence.

Hardly facts.

[SoonerCoug]

I know some folks on this board maybe don't believe that the world is overpopulated or believe in evolution, global warming, or a modern mass extinction. Let's forget about this for a moment.

Why do you people think that almost every religion on Earth encourages massive reproduction? Do you really think this is just about the benefiting individual members of the Church?

Human lives are an incredibly valuable resource for a nation or a religion. That doesn't mean that having a big family can't be personally valuable, but I think there is a subconscious motivation to expand numbers. Why do we all spend 2 years engaged in missionary work? Missionary work and massive reproduction both serve the same primary interest for the Church.

[cowboy]

Missionary work and massive reproduction both serve the same primary interest for the Church.

And in your opinion, what is that interest?

[RobinFinderson]

And in your opinion, what is that interest?

Spreading the tithing base to every corner of the earth?

[SoonerCoug]

And in your opinion, what is that interest?

Power and influence. It's not that the leaders don't genuinely believe in the Church, and it's not that they're even conscious of exactly why they want people to have big families. I'm arguing that there is a subconscious drive to grow the tribe, and that drive is promoted from the top down.

I use the Catholic Church as the prime example because the contraception ban is totally irrational.

Like I said, people are a tremendous resource. The low birth rates in Western Europe have motivated nations like France to bring in lots of immigrants. They need young working people for their economy to succeed. It is no different for a religion. We are engaged in competition with other religions. Making babies and converts ultimately gives a religion the upper hand.

The perpetual education fund serves a similar interest. It allows people to contribute more (in tithing and leadership) and makes their lives better simultaneously--two birds with one stone.

[il Padrino Ute]

Sooner - is the world overpopulated? If so, who makes that decision? And is it based on politics or something else?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I know some folks on this board maybe don't believe that the world is overpopulated or believe in evolution, global warming, or a modern mass extinction.

Sooner, why not just include gravity as well? Gravity, evolution...and global warming.

I'm trying to think of an equivalent statement for a different discussion. When discussing greatest bands of all time you would mention the Beatles, Led Zeppelin...and Nickleback.

[cowboy]

Power and influence.

Well then, we simply disagree, because I don't believe that is what motivates our leaders.

Since the world is overpopulated, I'd think they might recommend that people might consider limiting their reproduction on a personal basis. This would be a more reasonable position if it didn't really have something to do with expanding our numbers within the Church. We are commanded to replenish an earth that is already replenished.

If you actually believed that there were a finite number of spirits who would have an opportunity to come to earth, and that God has given the earth sufficient capacity to support all of His children, would you still make this recommendation?

[SoonerCoug]

Well then, we simply disagree, because I don't believe that is what motivates our leaders.


If you actually believed that there were a finite number of spirits who would have an opportunity to come to earth, and that God has given the earth sufficient capacity to support all of His children, would you still make this recommendation?

I meant power and influence for the Church. I think there is overwhelming evidence that the Church is trying to grow its power and influence, and even I like the idea of my tribe being influential.

Where are we taught that there is a finite number of spirits? I was under the impression that God has a whole bunch of worlds full of people and that God is sending spirits all over the place. I'd be curious to know if the other worlds are pulling their weight.

[TripletDaddy]

I meant power and influence for the Church. I think there is overwhelming evidence that the Church is trying to grow its power and influence, and even I like the idea of my tribe being influential.

Where are we taught that there is a finite number of spirits? I was under the impression that God has a whole bunch of worlds full of people and that God is sending spirits all over the place. I'd be curious to know if the other worlds are pulling their weight.

the scriptures support this theory. We only are given an account of our world. In fact, we are told specifically that the worlds are innumerable to man.

[cowboy]

I meant power and influence for the Church. I think there is overwhelming evidence that the Church is trying to grow its power and influence, and even I like the idea of my tribe being influential.

Okay, I'm with you there.

Where are we taught that there is a finite number of spirits? I was under the impression that God has a whole bunch of worlds full of people and that God is sending spirits all over the place. I'd be curious to know if the other worlds are pulling their weight.

Finite in the number who will come to earth, as the earth will eventually be cleansed and the final judgment will end the earth's tenure as a starting place for spirit children. In that light, what is your recommendation?