Mormon testifies against prop 8, refuses to stop, mic is cut.

[TripletDaddy]

You will also note that this is yet more proof that great minds think alike. Ahem...

Yes. Neither you nor I can tolerate typos.

[Jeff Lebowski]

well we are off on a different topic now. I would never do something like that, but why do you say "not testimony meeting?" Is there an official policy? Are we not told "the time is now yours?"

btw, are you aware whether this guy really left the Church? was he grandstanding for shock or was he expressing his true feelings about the Church. He did start out by explaining his basis....lifetime of support, etc....it sounded like he was really disappointed in the direction the Church had taken. Where should he express this stuff?

your response seems to support my only contention, which is to say that we have no platform for dissension in our culture.

Nice job playing the foil here. We need a good thread host from time to time.

When they say "The time is now yours...", it is typically followed by "...for the bearing of testimonies". Yes, it could be argued that this was his sincere testimony. But the point of testimony meeting is to worship and edify one another. Not to bitch about the church as if this is some kind of Mormon town hall meeting.

Let me once again point out my opposition to Prop 8. But stunts like this do far more damage than good.

[TripletDaddy]

Have you not had the fun of attending PEC?

ha. been there, done that amigo (never sitting in the main seat, mind you). And you are right.

[TripletDaddy]

But the point of testimony meeting is to worship and edify one another.

says you. this is a totally subjective definition.

apparently he wasn't feeling edified in earlier meetings and his definition of worship did not include what he perceived to be railing against gays.

I know your stance on Prop 8 and you know mine. I don't really see this thread as a Prop 8 issue at all. Perhaps that is where there is some disconnect.

I think he would have received the same mic treatment had he discussed the other usual Church hot topics. How long would someone be allowed to speak about the Kinderhook Plates, for example? Probably not very long.

[ERCougar]

But the point of testimony meeting is to worship and edify one another.

No one ever worships me at church, so I'm not gonna worship them.

[creekster]

No one ever worships me at church, so I'm not gonna worship them.

somebody has to go first. Be the bigger man for a change.

[creekster]

sometimes I think creekster's typos are all a staged act of desperation.

I confess; as soon as the dang videographer shows up I will cut it out.

[ERCougar]

somebody has to go first. Be the bigger man for a change.

What's the point of being the bigger man if they're not going to worship you?

Translation for creekster: wyats thte poitn or binerg tye bitger mam uf theh're npt goihg to wroshpi you?

[Jeff Lebowski]

says you. this is a totally subjective definition.

apparently he wasn't feeling edified in earlier meetings and his definition of worship did not include what he perceived to be railing against gays.

I know your stance on Prop 8 and you know mine. I don't really see this thread as a Prop 8 issue at all. Perhaps that is where there is some disconnect.

I think he would have received the same mic treatment had he discussed the other usual Church hot topics. How long would someone be allowed to speak about the Kinderhook Plates, for example? Probably not very long.

OK. Pick any other stance. My point still stands.

Don't bitch in testimony meeting. Login to CUF and do it here.

[Moliere]

I can see that photos during someone's talk is distracting and maybe rude.

But if your kid is having his farewell and you want to tape it, you cannot. If you are blessing your babies (triplets) and you want to record it so that you can transcribe it for them....you cannot. And if you go to a wedding on a Saturday, and the chapel isn't even being used, and your SIL and BIL want to take pictures on the stand area (don't ask me why, though...yikes), you cannot do that. The CHOI expressly forbids all of these things. It is kinda weird. Makes little sense to me. Don't we record General Conference?

When I say, "interesting," i mean that it made me reflect on the lack of platforms for dissension in our culture. It didn't make me mad. Like I said earlier, there was nothing "revelatory" about this guy's take. He said nothing that all of us, including you and I, haven't already hashed out and forgotten on cougarguard. To that extent, I agree with creekster....the video itself is pretty boring. But the bigger issue, at least for me, is pretty interesting.

It is an interesting paradox....we claim the corner on truth but are extremely threatened by questioning of that truth. That is what I am saying.

I remember back in the day several people would record talks. Before hand the family would put one of those old tape recorders on the pulpit and someone would hit record right before the talk was given. They must have changed the policy in the last 10 years. I expressly remember listening to my brothers homecoming talk, which was sent to me on a tape since I was already in the mission field.

As for recording baby blessings etc., if you really wanted to it would be easy to record. All smart phones have a voice record feature and I'm sure you won't go to hell for doing it. Again, it's probably in the CHOI because it's distracting, not because it's doctrine.

On taking pictures, I remember someone getting their eagle scout award in the chapel. The mother of the scout wanted a picture of them handing the award to her son. The bishop had told her no pictures in the chapel. So what does the mother do, right when the award is handed to the son she stands up from the second row and snaps a picture. No one cared, it was an eagle court of honor. Now she has the picture she always wanted.....too bad it has weird looking shadows in the background that look like people from the other side of the veil.

Okay, the spirit part was tic.

[Moliere]

Conservative grandstanding happens all the time. Liberal grandstanding is shut down. At a minimum, they need to be consistent in their enforcement.

Oddly enough I agree with you, but then again I live in Texas and most liberals are scared to even mention their liberalism for fear of being shot by someone who is packing heat at church.

Testimony meeting is not open mic time...even though it is treated as such. It is a time for bearing testimonies of the Savior, His Gospel, and His Church. It's a stretch to say that bearing a testimony even for prop 8 is appropriate in such a meeting.

[RobinFinderson]

OK. Pick any other stance. My point still stands.

Don't bitch in testimony meeting. Login to CUF and do it here.

But this WAS his testimony. He felt spiritually prompted to say what he did. He claims that he has never felt such a strong spiritual prompting. He felt compelled by the Holy Ghost to share his testimony.

This is what I don't understand about your position, Jeff. Are you saying that some testimonies don't belong in testimony meeting? Are you saying that you don't believe him when he says that he felt prompted by the spirit to share what he shared?

[Donuthole]

With a beard like that, I'm sure this man's apostacy came as no surprise to many/most of his fellow ward members.

On a more serious note, I wonder what the guy who stood up and walked out right after Mr. Beard was going to do? With the way he exited, he seemed to have a purpose.

[RockyBalboa]

well we are off on a different topic now. I would never do something like that, but why do you say "not testimony meeting?" Is there an official policy? Are we not told "the time is now yours?"

btw, are you aware whether this guy really left the Church? was he grandstanding for shock or was he expressing his true feelings about the Church. He did start out by explaining his basis....lifetime of support, etc....it sounded like he was really disappointed in the direction the Church had taken. Where should he express this stuff?

your response seems to support my only contention, which is to say that we have no platform for dissension in our culture.

Is Testimony in the chapel during a time to worship an appropriate platform to voice dissension that is clearly designed to garner attention?

I would strongly argue that it absolutely is not. What would be the purpose of carrying out a pre-meditated plan of video taping himself?

There are plenty of people and places he could express this stuff. A place of worship is not one of them. If memory serves correctly there many different protests in many different locations all over California (and outside of Cali) where they were allowed to protest and express their feelings.

There are times to privately speak with leaders and express dispointment. If he goes to the Bishop beforehand and says he'd like to get up and rip on the church about their stance on marriage regarding gays and that he's also like to announce his leaving the church.......then OF COURSE the Bishop would tell him that it wouldn't be the appropriate place or forum.

Why is this a difficult concept to grasp?

[RockyBalboa]

By the way....not a single person should be whining about the church cutting him off.

It's the church's rules anyways. People act as if they're disapointed by him being cut...which if you think about it, considering the venue and forum really isn't that rational of thought considering we know how the church operates. It's not unexpected nor surprising, nor should it be.

The Bishop acted appropriately. The guy giving his political rant did not. Those who opine for the separation of church and state....in this instance some ironically...do not.

The Chapel is a place of worship just like a Mosque is a place of worship. Had this guy done this in Mosque, a Kingdom Hall, a Born Again Christian Church, A Catholic Church during Mass...and began railing against the treatment of women and homosexuals what do you think would've happened to him? Some are acting as if this guys right were infringed upon and are acting as if he was shouted down.

His histronices were deliberate and planned. Hence the video. This is NOT a difficult thing to wrap one's head around. His intents make it hard to feel empathy when attention whoring tactics are employed.

There are many venues and places where as American citizens we are given the right and platform to protest and speak out against policy we find disagreeable. INSIDE a place of worship is not one of these places.