The Great Apostasy

[SeattleUte]

Its more like when you are in a group and one person is an uber geek about some topic or another and so everybody avoids that topic KNWOING what will happen when it is raised and then a new guy, who just doesnt know, mentions it. Everybody else rolls their eyes and thinks "great, here it comes . . . again."

It does seem clear that Paul hijacked Christianity. We see evidence of this in his confrontationS with James at the Jerusalem Council and Peter in Antioch over circumcision. We know that he took Christianity to the Gentiles. Of course his Greco Pagan backgroud was key, and he represented a bridge. But I don't see how Mormonism can disavow Paul or the Greek Gospels, which followed Paul of course.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Its more like when you are in a group and one person is an uber geek about some topic or another and so everybody avoids that topic KNWOING what will happen when it is raised and then a new guy, who just doesnt know, mentions it. Everybody else rolls their eyes and thinks "great, here it comes . . . again."

[\bowing head in shame]

[Katy Lied]

I think you are overclaiming Nelson's statement. It was descriptive only. The complete restoration was required, he is saying, merely because there had been an apostasy. Nothing in the quoted passage says the apostasy was necessary, only that it was foreseen and that Christ's return would only occur after a restoration.

Okay.

So I guess we're all back agreeing with Indy's interpretation.

[Jarid in Cedar]

The thing that bothers me most about the concept of the great apostasy is that for 1800+ years, God removed revealation from the Earth, leaving generations of people to wander aimlessly in the wilderness. Were the lives of those people simpler, thus requiring no help? Were they not worthy of the sealing blessings of eternal families? The original apostles were able to replace Judas, why not replace others to keep the apostolic line in place? These are the concepts that I have a hard time wrapping my brain and my heart around.

[Indy Coug]

The thing that bothers me most about the concept of the great apostasy is that for 1800+ years, God removed revealation from the Earth, leaving generations of people to wander aimlessly in the wilderness. Were the lives of those people simpler, thus requiring no help? Were they not worthy of the sealing blessings of eternal families? The original apostles were able to replace Judas, why not replace others to keep the apostolic line in place? These are the concepts that I have a hard time wrapping my brain and my heart around.

What percentage of the human population at any given time in history has ever had access to the fulness of the Gospel? Are we haggling about why 100% instead of 99.8%?

As for not being worthy of temple blessings, doesn't temple proxy work make that question largely moot?

[Solon]

What percentage of the human population at any given time in history has ever had access to the fulness of the Gospel? Are we haggling about why 100% instead of 99.8%?

As for not being worthy of temple blessings, doesn't temple proxy work make that question largely moot?

I don't know either way. Here's the 1978 First Presidency Statement about God's love for all people:http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=c..._jRJrhlQ&pli=1

[TripletDaddy]

Has "revelation" ever ceased? I am not sure that our official or even informal stance supports this.

Personal revelation seems to have existed since the beginning and throughout the Apostasy. The period of Apostasy denoted a break in the priesthood chain on Earth, not a cessation of God speaking to man.

In fact, some of the greatest examples of Divine inspiration can be culled from the period of the Apostasy.......art, music, literature from the Renaissance, for example. The Reformation. The printing of the Gutenberg Bible. Even the Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock and the American Revolution. These are all critical milestones in the evolution and progression of Christianity.

God has always been speaking to Man. I don't think that has ever ceased.

[TheBYUGuy]

In fact, some of the greatest examples of Divine inspiration can be culled from the period of the Apostasy.......art, music, literature from the Renaissance, for example. The Reformation. The printing of the Gutenberg Bible. Even the Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock and the American Revolution. These are all critical milestones in the evolution and progression of Christianity.

Hold on. I thought that there had been no advancement in technology between the beginning of the earth and 1820, and that the reason technological advancement was enabled was for the spreading of the gospel in the last dispensation.

Without 1820, we would have no TV, no Internet, and certainly no BYU football.

[SeattleUte]

Hold on. I thought that there had been no advancement in technology between the beginning of the earth and 1820, and that the reason technological advancement was enabled was for the spreading of the gospel in the last dispensation.

Without 1820, we would have no TV, no Internet, and certainly no BYU football.

[SeattleUte]

Has "revelation" ever ceased? I am not sure that our official or even informal stance supports this.

Personal revelation seems to have existed since the beginning and throughout the Apostasy. The period of Apostasy denoted a break in the priesthood chain on Earth, not a cessation of God speaking to man.

In fact, some of the greatest examples of Divine inspiration can be culled from the period of the Apostasy.......art, music, literature from the Renaissance, for example. The Reformation. The printing of the Gutenberg Bible. Even the Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock and the American Revolution. These are all critical milestones in the evolution and progression of Christianity.

God has always been speaking to Man. I don't think that has ever ceased.

THERE WAS NO GREAT APOSTASY!!!!

[TripletDaddy]

THERE WAS NO GREAT APOSTASY!!!!

You are right.

It wasn't great.

[TheBYUGuy]

no BYU football.

I agree.

[SeattleUte]

The thing that bothers me most about the concept of the great apostasy is that for 1800+ years, God removed revealation from the Earth, leaving generations of people to wander aimlessly in the wilderness. Were the lives of those people simpler, thus requiring no help? Were they not worthy of the sealing blessings of eternal families? The original apostles were able to replace Judas, why not replace others to keep the apostolic line in place? These are the concepts that I have a hard time wrapping my brain and my heart around.

"Great Apostasy" is born of the Euroconceit that used to be commonly called "Dark Ages" and has been universally rejected by scholars. Since recorded history there has always been enlightenment somewhere. The one unfortunate thing that happened for about 1800 years is that represenative government vanished from the earth and civil liberties were greatly reduced.

Does LDS theology take credit for restoring representative government and reinvigorating civil liberties? That would be funny and ironic if it did. For these developments we can mostly thank our British and early American forebears (who were inspired by Greek democractic institutions and civil liberties principles) as well as (according Nietzsche) Christianity (which in turn has strong ancient Greek roots). By the time of the birth of the American republic Great Britain had been developing and experimenting with representative institutions, and had developed a strong civil libertarian ethos. Indeed, GB abolished slavery long before we did.

[Indy Coug]

THERE WAS NO GREAT APOSTASY!!!!

So where did all the keys go after Peter died? Those must've been some hellacious couch cushions.

[SeattleUte]

So where did all the keys go after Peter died? Those must've been some hellacious couch cushions.

yo no hablo keys