The Great Apostasy

[Jarid in Cedar]

I have been thinking about this some lately. LDS doctrine says that the apostasy was necessary. My question is why. What is the purpose? What did it accomplish in the grand plan?

Thoughts?

[wuapinmon]

I have been thinking about this some lately. LDS doctrine says that the apostasy was necessary. My question is why. What is the purpose? What did it accomplish in the grand plan?

Thoughts?

Paul said so in 2 Tesalonicenses?

[Indy Coug]

Who said it was "necessary"? To the best of my recollection, the scriptures merely said that one would happen first prior to Christ returning, but didn't say it was necessary.

[wuapinmon]

Who said it was "necessary"? To the best of my recollection, the scriptures merely said that one would happen first prior to Christ returning, but didn't say it was necessary.

The word isn't there, but the implication is that Christ won't come back until it happens. Apostasía=falling away

I think in English it says "should not come" which = necessary

[wuapinmon]

Here's what Pablo said in the Reina-Valera (2 Tes 2:1-4):

Con respecto a la venida de nuestro Señor Jesucristo y nuestra reunión con él, os rogamos, hermanos,

2 que no os dejéis mover fácilmente de vuestro modo de pensar, ni os conturbéis, ni por espíritu ni por palabra ni por carta como si fuera nuestra, en el sentido de que el día del Señor está cerca.

3 ¡Nadie os engañe de ninguna manera!, pues no vendrá sin que antes venga la apostasía y se manifieste el hombre de pecado, el hijo de perdición,

4 el cual se opone y se levanta contra todo lo que se llama Dios o es objeto de culto; tanto, que se sienta en el templo de Dios como Dios, haciéndose pasar por Dios.

[Indy Coug]

My birthday won't happen until after the next New Year Eve's celebration, but I don't need the celebration in order for my birthday to occur.

[falafel]

My birthday won't happen until after the next New Year Eve's celebration, but I don't need the celebration in order for my birthday to occur.

tsk tsk. Your birthday won't come until after next New Year's Day. You need New Year's Day to come before your birthday can come.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Who said it was "necessary"? To the best of my recollection, the scriptures merely said that one would happen first prior to Christ returning, but didn't say it was necessary.

I have been trying to find a reference, but the gist was that the Apostasy was necessary to allow for the restoration by Joseph Smith(similar to the idea that the fall of Adam and Eve was a necessary step in God's plan). I will keep searching.

[Indy Coug]

tsk tsk. Your birthday won't come until after next New Year's Day. You need New Year's Day to come before your birthday can come.

But not the celebration.

[SeattleUte]

Who can even articulate for me what was the Great Apostasy?

[Tim]

I have been trying to find a reference, but the gist was that the Apostasy was necessary to allow for the restoration by Joseph Smith(similar to the idea that the fall of Adam and Eve was a necessary step in God's plan). I will keep searching.

JIC: I don't recall in my reading that it was necessary, simply that it was going to happen.

[wuapinmon]

JIC: I don't recall in my reading that it was necessary, simply that it was going to happen.

Tim,

Paul was fairly succinct in my above quote, no? I mean he used the subjunctive and everything.

[Katy Lied]

Who said it was "necessary"? To the best of my recollection, the scriptures merely said that one would happen first prior to Christ returning, but didn't say it was necessary.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Yup. I agree based on the scriptural reference.

But Russell Nelson goes further and calls it necessary:

This Great Apostasy followed the pattern that had ended each previous dispensation. The very first was in the time of Adam. Then came dispensations of Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and others. Each prophet had a divine commission to teach of the divinity and the doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ. In each age these teachings were meant to help the people. But their disobedience resulted in apostasy. Thus, all previous dispensations were limited in time and location. They were limited in time because each ended in apostasy. They were limited in location to a relatively small segment of planet earth.

The Restoration of All Things
Thus a complete restoration was required. God the Father and Jesus Christ called upon the Prophet Joseph Smith to be the prophet of this dispensation. All divine powers of previous dispensations were to be restored through him.13 This dispensation of the fulness of times would not be limited in time or in location. It would not end in apostasy, and it would fill the world.14


Hmmmm. Is this a guarantee that our dispensation will not apostatize? Can I eat drink and be merry because I know everyone else will save my dispensation from ruin? How can I reconcile this with all the dire warnings that we are the evillest generation on record?

[Indy Coug]

Who can even articulate for me what was the Great Apostasy?

The point in time anciently when they stopped having General Conference.

[Indy Coug]

So we're into a chicken-or-the-egg question about whether we needed Joseph Smith because of the Great Apostasy or whether we needed the Great Apostasy because of Joseph Smith.

Maybe we can throw in some foreordination vs. predestination while we're at it.