The "last movie I saw" thread

[Jeff Lebowski]

I haven't seen the movie, but I watched a few climbing documentaries (I think based on recommendations in the Netflix thread). I made the argument today that he may be the greatest athlete in the history of the world. The stakes are as high as they can get. The payoffs are minimal (financially). The skill set required has likely only rested in one person (him) since homo sapiens became a thing.

Not only that, but why would anyone run the risk to try it now? He has conquered it.

[falafel]

Not only that, but why would anyone run the risk to try it now? He has conquered it.

Along those same lines, why would anyone try and climb Everest ever again after Edmund Hillary?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Along those same lines, why would anyone try and climb Everest ever again after Edmund Hillary?

Don't be ridiculous. Anybody with money and time can summit Everest. Apples and oranges.

[falafel]

Don't be ridiculous. Anybody with money and time can summit Everest. Apples and oranges.

Huh. I wonder why it took the British 9 expeditions to do it if it was so simple?

[Commando]

Huh. I wonder why it took the British 9 expeditions to do it if it was so simple?

Stupid British never allotting enough time and money into exploits.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Huh. I wonder why it took the British 9 expeditions to do it if it was so simple?

It's not simple at all of course, but if I were forced to attempt one or the other with two years of prep, and couldn't turn back, Everest would be an easy pick.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It's not simple at all of course, but if I were forced to attempt one or the other with two years of prep, and couldn't turn back, Everest would be an easy pick.

Exactly.

Good grief. Old people, little kids, blind people have climbed Everest. Now a paraplegic is going to give it a shot. There is risk there and it takes some training, but nothing remotely similar to a free solo of El Capitan.

Let me spell this out for falafel, et al.: A free solo climb like that is such a physically difficult and zero-margin-for-error thing to attempt that most of the best climbers in the world wouldn't dream of attempting it. You almost have to have a death wish. Like it said in the doc, you either win the Olympic gold medal or you die. There is no middle ground. I can see how being the first person to do that would drive someone to take that risk. But to be the second? Third? I am not so sure.

[creekster]

Exactly.

Good grief. Old people, little kids, blind people have climbed Everest. Now a paraplegic is going to give it a shot. There is risk there and it takes some training, but nothing remotely similar to a free solo of El Capitan.

Let me spell this out for falafel, et al.: A free solo climb like that is such a physically difficult and zero-margin-for-error thing to attempt that most of the best climbers in the world wouldn't dream of attempting it. You almost have to have a death wish. Like it said in the doc, you either win the Olympic gold medal or you die. There is no middle ground. I can see how being the first person to do that would drive someone to take that risk. But to be the second? Third? I am not so sure.

Fastest.

I suspect you have been around enough high performance athletes to recognize that they are a breed apart. As you saw in the movie itself, a lot of these free solo guys died climbing things that were not that hard and which had previously been climbed by many others. Risk of death is not something that really stops them from doing something. To accomplish El Cap, which is some sort of holy grail for that sport, and to do it faster than Honnold? I would be very surprised if someone doesn't try it. And none of them are choosing between El Cap and Everest, either.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Fastest.

I suspect you have been around enough high performance athletes to recognize that they are a breed apart. As you saw in the movie itself, a lot of these free solo guys died climbing things that were not that hard and which had previously been climbed by many others. Risk of death is not something that really stops them from doing something. To accomplish El Cap, which is some sort of holy grail for that sport, and to do it faster than Honnold? I would be very surprised if someone doesn't try it. And none of them are choosing between El Cap and Everest, either.

Geez. You are right. Had not considered speed.

This is always going to be a small set of people. One crazy thing about the doc is the list of all the prior free solo dudes and how they died. Honnold will die young. What was the quote from the movie? When you spend so much time right at the edge, you will eventually go over the edge.

[falafel]

Exactly.

Good grief. Old people, little kids, blind people have climbed Everest. Now a paraplegic is going to give it a shot. There is risk there and it takes some training, but nothing remotely similar to a free solo of El Capitan.

Let me spell this out for falafel, et al.: A free solo climb like that is such a physically difficult and zero-margin-for-error thing to attempt that most of the best climbers in the world wouldn't dream of attempting it. You almost have to have a death wish. Like it said in the doc, you either win the Olympic gold medal or you die. There is no middle ground. I can see how being the first person to do that would drive someone to take that risk. But to be the second? Third? I am not so sure.

You are the king of pointing out straw man arguments, so it always surprises me when you employ one yourself.

No one is arguing that a free solo climb of El Cap is as difficult as climbing Everest today. The comparison is between 1950s Everest, when it took the British (the greatest explorers in the world at that date) 9 expeditions before Hillary and Norgay did it. And they did it without space-age clothing and equipment (they did have a rudimentary oxygen device). I wonder how many people in that day thought it was even possible to summit Everest? The climb is still incredibly difficult and deadly, despite your attempt to knock it down a few pegs ("there is risk, and it takes some training..." lol).

Now that someone has done it, others will be emboldened to do what many considered impossible. Since when is being first the only reason to do something incredibly difficult?

[PaloAltoCougar]

Geez. You are right. Had not considered speed.

This is always going to be a small set of people. One crazy thing about the doc is the list of all the prior free solo dudes and how they died. Honnold will die young. What was the quote from the movie? When you spend so much time right at the edge, you will eventually go over the edge.

The speed thing might motivate a couple of idiots, but unlike repeat attempts on Everest where speed isn't a consideration, each successive attempt on El Cap (assuming time is the goal) becomes ever more dangerous, if that's even possible. I'm thinking about a couple of the ultra-risky maneuvers Honnold made, and wonder how it would have gone if his inner voice had been shouting, "FASTER!!!! Just jump already!" But yeah, I suppose there's some value for the slower guy to be able to say, "Me, too!"

[creekster]

The speed thing might motivate a couple of idiots, but unlike repeat attempts on Everest where speed isn't a consideration, each successive attempt on El Cap (assuming time is the goal) becomes ever more dangerous, if that's even possible. I'm thinking about a couple of the ultra-risky maneuvers Honnold made, and wonder how it would have gone if his inner voice had been shouting, "FASTER!!!! Just jump already!" But yeah, I suppose there's some value for the slower guy to be able to say, "Me, too!"

I think you are forgetting what is like to be young and perhaps, like me, you never knew what it is like to be young, incredibly fit and a world class climber. There are many variables that might lead someone to try to repeat Honnold's feat. Doing it faster, doing it on a different route, either more or less challenging, or doing it at all. None of these guys expect to die. The risk of death is simply not a factor that will stop them from trying it. Btw, they do keep track of the fastest ascents of Everest both with and without oxygen. The free solo of El Cap was previously inconceivable. It is now very much conceivable and very much in the public consciousness. Again, there will never be a long parade of people trying this climb, but I would still be very surprised if someone (and likely many someones over time) does not try it again fairly soon.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You are the king of pointing out straw man arguments, so it always surprises me when you employ one yourself.

No one is arguing that a free solo climb of El Cap is as difficult as climbing Everest today.

I never claimed that anyone made that argument.

The comparison is between 1950s Everest, when it took the British (the greatest explorers in the world at that date) 9 expeditions before Hillary and Norgay did it. And they did it without space-age clothing and equipment (they did have a rudimentary oxygen device). I wonder how many people in that day thought it was even possible to summit Everest? The climb is still incredibly difficult and deadly, despite your attempt to knock it down a few pegs ("there is risk, and it takes some training..." lol).

Now that someone has done it, others will be emboldened to do what many considered impossible. Since when is being first the only reason to do something incredibly difficult?

A mostly irrelevant comparison. Honnold made the climb with a bag of resin and some climbing shoes. I don't see technology or repetition ever changing the fundamental nature of what he did. It will ALWAYS be extraordinarily dangerous.

[falafel]

I never claimed that anyone made that argument.

Haha, YOU made that argument!

A mostly irrelevant comparison. Honnold made the climb with a bag of resin and some climbing shoes. I don't see technology or repetition ever changing the fundamental nature of what he did. It will ALWAYS be extraordinarily dangerous.

I'll get back to you when I find a 100% exactly identical activity for comparison.

[CardiacCoug]

I think you are forgetting what is like to be young and perhaps, like me, you never knew what it is like to be young, incredibly fit and a world class climber. There are many variables that might lead someone to try to repeat Honnold's feat. Doing it faster, doing it on a different route, either more or less challenging, or doing it at all. None of these guys expect to die. The risk of death is simply not a factor that will stop them from trying it. Btw, they do keep track of the fastest ascents of Everest both with and without oxygen. The free solo of El Cap was previously inconceivable. It is now very much conceivable and very much in the public consciousness. Again, there will never be a long parade of people trying this climb, but I would still be very surprised if someone (and likely many someones over time) does not try it again fairly soon.

Yep — how many people will die because of that movie? Probably more than a few.