Breaking Bad

[falafel]

Meh. I'm rewatching it too, and I sort of agree but mostly disagree. You're now sympathetic to Jesse because you know his plight and because he ends up being the only really likeable character of the entire show. But back when you first watched it, Walt was the protagonist, so what then seemed like "tough love" now seems prickish. Let's face it, Jesse was a mess and needed Walt to be a prick at first.

As I've always said, Walt's true turning point was letting what's her face die to preserve his secret. Not coincidentally, that's right about the same time when Walt can't come to grips with letting "donors" and Flynn get credit for the money Walt earned. That's when it becomes incontrovertible that he's no longer doing it for his family, he's doing it for him.

Also, I forgot how lame it is that Skyler figures everything out because of what Walt says while he's under anesthesia. Pretty weak. I had not forgotten how lame it is that season 2 culminates in an orchestrated plane crash. Super lame.

After recently re-watching the Wire, it's pretty stark how much better that show holds up than Breaking Bad.

You are assuming my comment was based solely on his relationship with Jesse. That's actually not why I made the comment. He was always a douche to Jesse, that is nothing new. But in re-watching the series, I've noticed how arrogant he is to everyone around him, even before he really started cooking. Students, Skylar, Bogdan, his former partner, Hank. He sees himself as better than all of them. Remember that one test he graded (I think it was actually Jesse's) where he writes "Ridiculous!" in red ink? Nice motivational technique. I also like how he thinks he can make a few breakfasts for Skylar after he's been AWOL for a little while and he expects her to melt. Then he's pissed when she doesn't.

[scottie]

I've been catching episodes here and there during AMC's marathons. I'd forgotten how much I like Mike's character; glad to see from previews that he'll be on Better Call Saul.

[Northwestcoug]

Meh. I'm rewatching it too, and I sort of agree but mostly disagree. You're now sympathetic to Jesse because you know his plight and because he ends up being the only really likeable character of the entire show. But back when you first watched it, Walt was the protagonist, so what then seemed like "tough love" now seems prickish. Let's face it, Jesse was a mess and needed Walt to be a prick at first.

As I've always said, Walt's true turning point was letting what's her face die to preserve his secret. Not coincidentally, that's right about the same time when Walt can't come to grips with letting "donors" and Flynn get credit for the money Walt earned. That's when it becomes incontrovertible that he's no longer doing it for his family, he's doing it for him.

Also, I forgot how lame it is that Skyler figures everything out because of what Walt says while he's under anesthesia. Pretty weak. I had not forgotten how lame it is that season 2 culminates in an orchestrated plane crash. Super lame.

After recently re-watching the Wire, it's pretty stark how much better that show holds up than Breaking Bad.

Lame on the surface. But I saw it as part of the whole 'look at the wide swath of destruction Walt creates' motif. Then it didn't bother me as much.

[falafel]

Lame on the surface. But I saw it as part of the whole 'look at the wide swath of destruction Walt creates' motif. Then it didn't bother me as much.

The lameness for me comes from the fact that they sell it as something more sinister the whole season.

Another prick point for Walt - forcing Flynn to keep drinking tequila at Walt's remission party.

[Donuthole]

You are assuming my comment was based solely on his relationship with Jesse. That's actually not why I made the comment. He was always a douche to Jesse, that is nothing new. But in re-watching the series, I've noticed how arrogant he is to everyone around him, even before he really started cooking. Students, Skylar, Bogdan, his former partner, Hank. He sees himself as better than all of them. Remember that one test he graded (I think it was actually Jesse's) where he writes "Ridiculous!" in red ink? Nice motivational technique. I also like how he thinks he can make a few breakfasts for Skylar after he's been AWOL for a little while and he expects her to melt. Then he's pissed when she doesn't.

How is he prickish to Skylar before he starts cooking? As for teaching, he's the type of teacher who is nice and cordial until something requires him to be stern. Bogdan is a prick who practically begs to be treated like a prick. His former partner stabbed him in the back. And Hank is arguably the biggest prick of the entire show, even if his black and white morality makes him sympathetic at times.

As for the bolded, that's not him being a prick. That's him being poor/stupid at apologies.

[Donuthole]

Another prick point for Walt - forcing Flynn to keep drinking tequila at Walt's remission party.

After he had been cooking for some time and right at the apex of his turning--or breaking, if you will--bad.

[falafel]

After he had been cooking for some time and right at the apex of his turning--or breaking, if you will--bad.

I think they common thought was Walt was a basically good dude who made one decision that eventually turn evil. What I'm seeing is that Walt was never really a "good dude." He was a passive-aggressive wimp who started asserting himself more, but he pretty much had the same attitudes from the beginning.

[falafel]

As for the bolded, that's not him being a prick. That's him being poor/stupid at apologies.

He wasn't trying to apologize. He assumed that a couple of pancakes would make her forget all the shit he did. He's just an arrogant POS.

[Omaha 680]

He wasn't trying to apologize. He assumed that a couple of pancakes would make her forget all the shit he did. He's just an arrogant POS.

Right. Walt never felt like he should have to apologize for anything until the very end.

[Donuthole]

I think they common thought was Walt was a basically good dude who made one decision that eventually turn evil. What I'm seeing is that Walt was never really a "good dude." He was a passive-aggressive wimp who started asserting himself more, but he pretty much had the same attitudes from the beginning.

Is it like he's a natural man who stopped suppressing his natural inclinations and therefore became an enemy to God? That's some real Freudian Id, Ego, Superego stuff, there.

I guess what I'm saying is that whether Walt was an evil dude pretending to be nice or whether he was a nice guy who became evil is a distinction without a difference. To double down on the UtahDanisms, it's a difference of degree and not kind. Personally, I do not think it is very profound to re-watch the show, with full knowledge of how the story plays out, and cite every passive-aggressive or pissy action by Walt as evidence of his inherent evilness. That strikes me as the type of observation I would expect from Topper. #sns

[falafel]

Is it like he's a natural man who stopped suppressing his natural inclinations and therefore became an enemy to God? That's some real Freudian Id, Ego, Superego stuff, there.

I guess what I'm saying is that whether Walt was an evil dude pretending to be nice or whether he was a nice guy who became evil is a distinction without a difference. To double down on the UtahDanisms, it's a difference of degree and not kind. Personally, I do not think it is very profound to re-watch the show, with full knowledge of how the story plays out, and cite every passive-aggressive or pissy action by Walt as evidence of his inherent evilness. That strikes me as the type of observation I would expect from Topper. #sns

Wow, now that I think back over our friendship, I'm realizing that you've always been a super-douche!

I'm not saying its profound, I'm just saying I'm looking noticing things I didn't see before. I hardly think that merits a comparison to Topper!

[Donuthole]

Wow, now that I think back over our friendship, I'm realizing that you've always been a super-douche!

I'm not saying its profound, I'm just saying I'm looking noticing things I didn't see before. I hardly think that merits a comparison to Topper!

I knew it was a low blow, but I'm on a deadline (and probably shouldn't even be on CS.com) so I didn't have time to flesh out the argument. So I cut to the chase (a bit hastily I admit).

[woot]

I also rewatched BB a few months ago, and decided that while the last two episodes of season 4 and all of season 5 are pretty great, the rest is just fine, on par with dozens of other shows. As a whole, it's really not in the same league as the Wire.

[ERCougar]

Better Call Saul starts Sunday. The reviewer on NPR, who called BB the greatest tv drama ever, reviewed it yesterday and thinks it's as good as BB, at least for the first two episodes.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Better Call Saul starts Sunday. The reviewer on NPR, who called BB the greatest tv drama ever, reviewed it yesterday and thinks it's as good as BB, at least for the first two episodes.

I am anxious to see it, but keeping my expectations very low.