Question for Attorneys

[New Mexican Disaster]

I have a pre-law school masters and I would not say it was a waste of time. Staying in school and not working is always better than working.

But going to grad school first made law school an almost unendurable hell because it was so much more enjoyable than law school.

[thesaint258]

I have a pre-law school masters and I would not say it was a waste of time. Staying in school and not working is always better than working.

But going to grad school first made law school an almost unendurable hell because it was so much more enjoyable than law school.

How much of it was the masters being more enjoyable and how much was being sick of being in school? I was going crazy my third year because I just wanted to be done with it and move on.

[Pheidippides]

and so you decided against it because....?

This was before I knew you, so I didn't need to prove myself to the competition.

[New Mexican Disaster]

How much of it was the masters being more enjoyable and how much was being sick of being in school? I was going crazy my third year because I just wanted to be done with it and move on.

It's hard to say, but the contrast between the two was stark.

[Babs]

This was before I knew you, so I didn't need to prove myself to the competition.

:nana: I have a masters! Nanny nanny boo boo! :nana:[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[wuapinmon]

How many attorneys and law students will have to tell you that a masters is a waste of time before you will believe them?

I'm waiting for one who has one to tell me that. Also, I'm going to let him know that most of "my attorney friends" think a masters would be a waste of time (give me some credit.). I won't tell him that I think most of you write like the Hamburger Helper Glove on an old typewriter.


Babs, he's not ESL, but to say that he has a solid understanding of written English would be slightly inaccurate.

[Jacob]

I'm waiting for one who has one to tell me that. Also, I'm going to let him know that most of "my attorney friends" think a masters would be a waste of time (give me some credit.). I won't tell him that I think most of you write like the Hamburger Helper Glove on an old typewriter.


Babs, he's not ESL, but to say that he has a solid understanding of written English would be slightly inaccurate.

It will in no way further his legal career. Can anybody think of a reason a lawyer would need a masters? Doubtful. There's simply to point to it for the practice of law.

A masters may very well come in handy when he drops out of law school, or after a year or 2 of practicing law he realizes that he just wasted 3 years of his life and a couple hundred grand. At least he'll have something to fall back on.

Hell, even an undergraduate degree is mostly worthless for a lawyer, except that it was a pre-qualification for entering law school.

[wuapinmon]

Hell, even an undergraduate degree is mostly worthless for a lawyer, except that it was a pre-qualification for entering law school.

You're an idiot.

[UtahDan]

You're an idiot.

I'll chime in as someone who worked for a small immigration shop for a while. If he wants to do immigration law and trade on his background, he is going to be working as a solo practitioner or in a small firm that does mostly that. Most people who need immigration help cannot afford to pay a lot and my sense (you Big Law guys correct me if I'm wrong) is that larger firms can't make any money on this and don't really do it.

My point here is that his success as an immigration attorney isn't going to have a thing to do with whether he goes to a top school or how his grades are. He should get through law school with as little debt as he can muster and then look for people to practice with in a big city. DC and VA for example have tons of little immigration firms who are always hiring associates and paying them nothing. Then usually after a year or two those associates go hang out their own shingle. This is a business that you have to do in volume to be successful and where you get clients through word of mouth and being involved in the immigrant community.

I have told a lot of people recently to think hard about doing something other than be a lawyer unless they can get to a tops school and do well. It just costs so much and the market is so flooded with unemployed lawyers right now. More than at any time historically. But I think this kid, if he is tightly focused on immigration, could actually be okay.

[Pheidippides]

I'll chime in as someone who worked for a small immigration shop for a while. If he wants to do immigration law and trade on his background, he is going to be working as a solo practitioner or in a small firm that does mostly that. Most people who need immigration help cannot afford to pay a lot and my sense (you Big Law guys correct me if I'm wrong) is that larger firms can't make any money on this and don't really do it.

My point here is that his success as an immigration attorney isn't going to have a thing to do with whether he goes to a top school or how his grades are. He should get through law school with as little debt as he can muster and then look for people to practice with in a big city. DC and VA for example have tons of little immigration firms who are always hiring associates and paying them nothing. Then usually after a year or two those associates go hang out their own shingle. This is a business that you have to do in volume to be successful and where you get clients through word of mouth and being involved in the immigrant community.

I have told a lot of people recently to think hard about doing something other than be a lawyer unless they can get to a tops school and do well. It just costs so much and the market is so flooded with unemployed lawyers right now. More than at any time historically. But I think this kid, if he is tightly focused on immigration, could actually be okay.

Immigration law is what I do pro bono. That should give you a sense of the financial wherewithal of at least a portion of the clientele. You don't see many pro bono operations in M&A or finance.

[UtahDan]

Immigration law is what I do pro bono. That should give you a sense of the financial wherewithal of at least a portion of the clientele. You don't see many pro bono operations in M&A or finance.

Not even in this economy?

[Pheidippides]

I have told a lot of people recently to think hard about doing something other than be a lawyer unless they can get to a tops school and do well. It just costs so much and the market is so flooded with unemployed lawyers right now. More than at any time historically.

I have been telling a lot of people this too. Top 15, or good regional and at least half your way paid, or find another career.

[UtahDan]

I have been telling a lot of people this too. Top 15, or good regional and at least half your way paid, or find another career.

Not to thread jack, but I keep thinking and reading that we are nearing a tipping point in legal education. There are just a million law schools out there right now charging a lot of money, turning out lots of lawyers who cannot find jobs. I keep wondering whether we are going to start seeing a dramatic drop off in enrollment and see a lot of these little schools fold. I also keep wondering whether these market forces are going to force tuitions back down. There really are out of all proportion at the moment.

[Pheidippides]

Not to thread jack, but I keep thinking and reading that we are nearing a tipping point in legal education. There are just a million law schools out there right now charging a lot of money, turning out lots of lawyers who cannot find jobs. I keep wondering whether we are going to start seeing a dramatic drop off in enrollment and see a lot of these little schools fold. I also keep wondering whether these market forces are going to force tuitions back down. There really are out of all proportion at the moment.

Agreed. Law schools are a profit center for universities as a whole and they have been trying to take advantage of that. There is need for the top 15 and for good regional schools, to be sure, and maybe more than one per region. But I don't know what I'd do if I was a grad from one of the dinky non-accredited places in California right now.

[wuapinmon]

Please note my prior clarification! ENVIRONMENTAL! (At least the Dude pays attention!)

Here's a recent comment from the lad [sic] [sic] [sic]:

enviromental law thats why i was interested in Miami they have a good program and i like the location plus they offer a joint degree program, were i can recieve my juris doctor and a masters in a enviromental prgram like coastal and land law, but u have to maintain 3.0 your freshman year in order to apply so i figure if it was somewat easy for me to get two degrees at coker why not do it in law school. i kno it will be hard but i think i can do it. sure a mentor would def be helpfull to me.