Apple vs. PC

[falafel]

Stop using your devices to access porn.

That's like saying "stop using your bathroom to take a shower."

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

That's like saying "stop using your bathroom to take a shower."

Gross you masturbate in the shower? Some of us pee in there.

[Northwestcoug]

The software we use at the office only works on Windows. There are cloud computing options that would make an Apple an option, but at an increased cost. We'll stick with PC's at the office for now.

Sorry, Ted.

To be clear, I was talking about my home computer. I doubt we would ever switch out our PCs at work.

Sorry, Ted.

[tooblue]

I know several in the media arts who are switching to PC. The MS Surface is gaining a lot of respect in that arena.

I'm like Lebowski. I have a 2016 Macbook Pro that is a decent computer but has a significant degree of annoyance built in. The reality is it's not really any better than the Dell I have at work.

I've been a beta tester for the Surface, as well as for the iPad pro / Pencil. The surface is lovely, but buggy ... it's just not quite there yet. With Microsoft's track record, I fear it will never get there, which is frustrating because it has great potential. The iPad pro is lovelier in many ways, but a complete waste of money. Far more intuitive and remarkably responsive than the Surface. It's just too small to create serious art and design with. Because, fundamentally, it lacks the power to truly compete with a good laptop or desktop setup running the full adobe suit. Puny apps from the app store are NOT the answer.

Apple is too concerned with maintaining profit margin these days, than with making great products, except for the phone—it still is that much better than all others. Simply stated, Mac laptops are starting to become too expensive to justify spending the money we do on them. The touch bar is a weird gimmicky thing, and completely useless. There is a void right now in the creative equipment market, that neither company seems capable of filling. Something is going to come along at some point, and pretty soon. Wish someone could tell me what the entity is that will make that product, cause I'd pull out all the stops to invest in it.

[falafel]

Gross you masturbate in the shower? Some of us pee in there.

I thought we talked about this. I don't like you peeing in my shower.

[Shaka]

I've been a beta tester for the Surface, as well as for the iPad pro / Pencil. The surface is lovely, but buggy ... it's just not quite there yet. With Microsoft's track record, I fear it will never get there, which is frustrating because it has great potential. The iPad pro is lovelier in many ways, but a complete waste of money. Far more intuitive and remarkably responsive than the Surface. It's just too small to create serious art and design with. Because, fundamentally, it lacks the power to truly compete with a good laptop or desktop setup running the full adobe suit. Puny apps from the app store are NOT the answer.

Apple is too concerned with maintaining profit margin these days, than with making great products, except for the phone—it still is that much better than all others. Simply stated, Mac laptops are starting to become too expensive to justify spending the money we do on them. The touch bar is a weird gimmicky thing, and completely useless. There is a void right now in the creative equipment market, that neither company seems capable of filling. Something is going to come along at some point, and pretty soon. Wish someone could tell me what the entity is that will make that product, cause I'd pull out all the stops to invest in it.

Trust me, OSX and the 2016 Macbooks are just as much, if not more, flawed.

[tooblue]

Trust me, OSX and the 2016 Macbooks are just as much, if not more, flawed.

In dealing with hundreds of students every Fall, who should be far more computer literate than they generally are, it's no contest. The Mac is superior, despite the buggy nature of OSX (the bugginess has really soured me of late). The problem is, Windows whatever # is a nightmare. Something's gotta give.

[Shaka]

In dealing with hundreds of students every Fall, who should be far more computer literate than they generally are, it's no contest. The Mac is superior, despite the buggy nature of OSX (the bugginess has really soured me of late). The problem is, Windows whatever # is a nightmare. Something's gotta give.

Yeah you're dealing with the wrong Windows machines. The current Windows version is excellent.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I like the new touch bar. And the slim profile and the USB-C ports. I would be perfectly happy with my new laptop if everything worked. But it doesn't. I suspect a motherboard issue of some kind.

[wuapinmon]

I know several in the media arts who are switching to PC. The MS Surface is gaining a lot of respect in that arena.

I'm like Lebowski. I have a 2016 Macbook Pro that is a decent computer but has a significant degree of annoyance built in. The reality is it's not really any better than the Dell I have at work.

When I hear people say stuff like this, I keep thinking that the Mac has become the leather Aeropostale bomber jacket of 1988. Everyone said it was awesome, and when I asked why, I was told, "because it is." When I tried one on at Macy's, it wasn't comfortable, even though it looked nice. It also wasn't very warm, and it gets very cold in North Georgia in winter when you factor in humidity. So, I could spend $70 on a nice warm jacket, or $280 (in 1988) on a flashy leather jacket with printed Italian words on it because "everyone" said it was awesome. I didn't buy the Aeropostale jacket, mostly because of the money and because I looked like a tool in it, but a little because it just wasn't as good as everyone said.

Also, one button on the mouse? WTF?

[tooblue]

When I hear people say stuff like this, I keep thinking that the Mac has become the leather Aeropostale bomber jacket of 1988. Everyone said it was awesome, and when I asked why, I was told, "because it is." When I tried one on at Macy's, it wasn't comfortable, even though it looked nice. It also wasn't very warm, and it gets very cold in North Georgia in winter when you factor in humidity. So, I could spend $70 on a nice warm jacket, or $280 (in 1988) on a flashy leather jacket with printed Italian words on it because "everyone" said it was awesome. I didn't buy the Aeropostale jacket, mostly because of the money and because I looked like a tool in it, but a little because it just wasn't as good as everyone said.

Also, one button on the mouse? WTF?

Reasons:

1. Operating system is more intuitive and easier for the novice user to grasp when learning to do complex things not related to the configuration of the hardware. The misconception is our children, having grown up with computers, are in fact sophisticated computer users. They are not. Once installed and running well, there are fewer updates, if any ever to be made or required of the OS. The Machine "just works." That means less down time, and one fewer excuse the student has as to why project work couldn't get done. Furthermore, the novice user, who's focus is on learning to be a good artist / designer, does not need to invest any time in truly understanding the mechanics of their machine ... in other words, an artsy kid does not need to become a tech/IT kid, or worse, an engineer :-) They can just focus on art and design.

2. Mac OS and chip architecture were made with creative tasks in mind. It's evolution coincided with the rise of Adobe and it's software (specifically EPS, and the ability of a laser printer to provide what-you-see-is-what-you-get, when you hit the print button). In fact the one likely would not exist without the other. While now there is no difference between Adobe software on either platform, at one point in time (metaphorically) PC's spoke German while Adobe software Spoke Spanish. That legacy of misunderstanding persists to a certain extent to this day. Whereas Mac's always spoke Spanish in harmony with the Adobe software. They are the closest of cousins, who hail from the same village.

3. The life-span of the Mac is longer. Currently, my laptop has a renew cycle set by my college at five years. I'd love it to be shorter, but only because I am greedy and like new shiny things. The reality is I don't need a new machine earlier, because what I've got will meet my needs, even beyond the five years. What's more, during that time, I NEVER (OK, once in the past twenty years) have to upgrade, or change the architecture. That means I have only had one issue like Lebowski might be describing in more twenty years. There is not a PC owner I have ever met who can tell me the same thing.

4. I have never had a virus. I have not had anti-virus software installed on my machine in over 15 years. That does not mean there are not viruses for Mac. There are. But you kinda have to look to find them. They generally don't go looking for you, or were built into the machine at the point of manufacture. "WannaCry" wasn't a concern for me or any of our systems.

It's much more than getting the latest Aeropostale jacket (which I wouldn't buy either). Also, you can use any mouse you want, even one with two buttons! But get this: on a Mac, I use both hands—one on the keyboard and one on the mouse simultaneously. For a designer who knows how to use quick keys in the software, it's like really knowing not just the conversational aspects of a language, but all of the slang and colloquialisms that help portray you as a native speaker. In fact there are things in Photoshop and Illustrator you can only really do, quickly and efficiently with both a mouse and your keyboard. The right mouse button is a redundancy, and not necessary.

[Shaka]

Reasons:

1. Operating system is more intuitive and easier for the novice user to grasp when learning to do complex things not related to the configuration of the hardware. The misconception is our children, having grown up with computers, are in fact sophisticated computer users. They are not. Once installed and running well, there are fewer updates, if any ever to be made or required of the OS. The Machine "just works." That means less down time, and one fewer excuse the student has as to why project work couldn't get done. Furthermore, the novice user, who's focus is on learning to be a good artist / designer, does not need to invest any time in truly understanding the mechanics of their machine ... in other words, an artsy kid does not need to become a tech/IT kid, or worse, an engineer :-) They can just focus on art and design.

2. Mac OS and chip architecture were made with creative tasks in mind. It's evolution coincided with the rise of Adobe and it's software (specifically EPS, and the ability of a laser printer to provide what-you-see-is-what-you-get, when you hit the print button). In fact the one likely would not exist without the other. While now there is no difference between Adobe software on either platform, at one point in time (metaphorically) PC's spoke German while Adobe software Spoke Spanish. That legacy of misunderstanding persists to a certain extent to this day. Whereas Mac's always spoke Spanish in harmony with the Adobe software. They are the closest of cousins, who hail from the same village.

3. The life-span of the Mac is longer. Currently, my laptop has a renew cycle set by my college at five years. I'd love it to be shorter, but only because I am greedy and like new shiny things. The reality is I don't need a new machine earlier, because what I've got will meet my needs, even beyond the five years. What's more, during that time, I NEVER (OK, once in the past twenty years) have to upgrade, or change the architecture. That means I have only had one issue like Lebowski might be describing in more twenty years. There is not a PC owner I have ever met who can tell me the same thing.

4. I have never had a virus. I have not had anti-virus software installed on my machine in over 15 years. That does not mean there are not viruses for Mac. There are. But you kinda have to look to find them. They generally don't go looking for you, or were built into the machine at the point of manufacture. "WannaCry" wasn't a concern for me or any of our systems.

It's much more than getting the latest Aeropostale jacket (which I wouldn't buy either). Also, you can use any mouse you want, even one with two buttons! But get this: on a Mac, I use both hands—one on the keyboard and one on the mouse simultaneously. For a designer who knows how to use quick keys in the software, it's like really knowing not just the conversational aspects of a language, but all of the slang and colloquialisms that help portray you as a native speaker. In fact there are things in Photoshop and Illustrator you can only really do, quickly and efficiently with both a mouse and your keyboard. The right mouse button is a redundancy, and not necessary.

Dude no offense but you're spewing the reasons why Macs were better for certain things circa fifteen years ago. At that time I was a multi-media developer and had the latest and greatest from both worlds sitting on my desk. Everything has changed. On the creative side PC's caught up years ago. All that Adobe stuff you're talking about (you forgot about Macromedia) has been available on PC for years and works exactly the same. There is literally no difference in the user experience. It's the same in the audio and video and audio production world. One of my buddies who is an Apple die-hard and edited some of the top-rated reality series on TV is now working as a colorist in NYC and has switched over. It took him about a day to figure out how to navigate in the PC world and he's fine. The architecture argument is also stupid. Since Apple went with Intel you can find identical hardware setups in Apple products and many PC's. You can also go on New Egg and build yourself a Hackintosh without much effort.

Lifespans on Macs aren't longer. I've had three fail just after the warranty period for GPU issues. There are numerous threads on all kinds of message boards detailing issues with Macbooks. The GPU issues are due to a poor cooling design schemes because sometimes Apple values style over quality. On the flip side my last five PC laptops from Dell, Lenovo, and HP are dated but all work fine. Every so often I'll farm one of them out to a niece or a nephew who needs a computer for school.

Virus? Macs are increasingly targeted. I haven't had a virus on a PC in years using free virus tools available to everyone.

I have the latest generation MBP. I haven't had the issues that JL has had but there are other annoying things about the computer. Updates occur all the time and screw up the drivers for the peripherals that I use. Sometimes the issues take months to fix. This is rarely the case on my PC. The truth is both OS's are buggy but both are pretty fantastic. Windows 10 is an excellent operating system and any idiot can easily learn how to use it.

[pelagius]

Now my new laptop (2016 MBP) is doing the same kind of thing. Several things don't work and random restarts. Spent 3 hrs on the phone today with Apple tech support and they couldn't fix it. Taking it in on Thursday.

Are the limited ram and mediocre gpu options not issues for you? I suppose they wouldn't be if you always do your mid-level and serious computational intensive work on real workstations.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Are the limited ram and mediocre gpu options not issues for you? I suppose they wouldn't be if you always do your serious computational intensive work on real workstations.

Not when they are working properly.

For my work, when the computational demands pop up they are typically embarrassingly parallel so we just use HTCondor with local resources or Amazon Cloud or Microsoft Azure. I have access to a few supercomputers, but have rarely had a good reason to use them.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Dude no offense but you're spewing the reasons why Macs were better for certain things circa fifteen years ago. At that time I was a multi-media developer and had the latest and greatest from both worlds sitting on my desk. Everything has changed. On the creative side PC's caught up years ago. All that Adobe stuff you're talking about (you forgot about Macromedia) has been available on PC for years and works exactly the same. There is literally no difference in the user experience. It's the same in the audio and video and audio production world. One of my buddies who is an Apple die-hard and edited some of the top-rated reality series on TV is now working as a colorist in NYC and has switched over. It took him about a day to figure out how to navigate in the PC world and he's fine. The architecture argument is also stupid. Since Apple went with Intel you can find identical hardware setups in Apple products and many PC's. You can also go on New Egg and build yourself a Hackintosh without much effort.

Lifespans on Macs aren't longer. I've had three fail just after the warranty period for GPU issues. There are numerous threads on all kinds of message boards detailing issues with Macbooks. The GPU issues are due to a poor cooling design schemes because sometimes Apple values style over quality. On the flip side my last five PC laptops from Dell, Lenovo, and HP are dated but all work fine. Every so often I'll farm one of them out to a niece or a nephew who needs a computer for school.

Virus? Macs are increasingly targeted. I haven't had a virus on a PC in years using free virus tools available to everyone.

I have the latest generation MBP. I haven't had the issues that JL has had but there are other annoying things about the computer. Updates occur all the time and screw up the drivers for the peripherals that I use. Sometimes the issues take months to fix. This is rarely the case on my PC. The truth is both OS's are buggy but both are pretty fantastic. Windows 10 is an excellent operating system and any idiot can easily learn how to use it.

Why pick just one? I run Mac OS, Windows 10, and Ubuntu on my laptop, all at the same time.