Do you like Max?

[Goatnapper'96]

BYU fans, I'm curious, do you like Max as quarterback?

I was talking to an LDS gentleman today, and I asked him about the upcoming game. He soured immediately and said he's sworn off BYU football so long as Max is under center. He said he thinks Max is a lousy quarterback. I was kind of surprised by this. Is this a fairly common sentiment that I've just missed up til now? Or is this guy an aberration?

I like Max Hall and any angst towards Max is ignorant IMO. Max was a sexy superstar after 2007 then in 2008 he really lit up some bad teams and then came his special time with reporters to discuss possible Heisman talk and blah..blah..blah. Then BYU hit the wall when TCU and Utah beat the shit out of BYU and that impotent bowl performance. Max didn't play well in those games but I tend to think that the issues in those 3 games start at the top. Fans frequently prefer blaming players when the issues lie with the coaching staff as fans see coaching staff as more permanent whereas players come and go. It reminds me of when IndyCoug split his time defending Crowton's ineptness by blaming either players who sabotaged his chosen vessell or the architect who made BYU's football program slightly more than a glorified JC.

Saying that Max is good and will likely have a very good year with better performances in the high profile games, but there are still limitations to what BYU can do because of Max's physical limitations. BYU fans still remember what Beck could do when he finally put it all together. If they are expecting Max to blossom like Beck did in October '06, methinks they are in for a bit of a disapointment.

[Indy Coug]

I don't recall if we were ever ahead in that game, but if we were, keep the ball on the ground and out of the hands of the Tulsa offense, which obviously couldn't stop.

Thanks for proving my point.

[JohnnyLingo]

Max didn't play well in those games but I tend to think that the issues in those 3 games start at the top.

How so?

If they are expecting Max to blossom like Beck did in October '06, methinks they are in for a bit of a disapointment.

Well that answers my question from that other thread. Thanks.

[Goatnapper'96]

Thanks for proving my point.

It probably was Lavell's fault.

[Indy Coug]

It probably was Lavell's fault.

Well, Anae did play for LaVell....

[SoCalCoug]

Off topic and annoying grammar point, but this is a good teaching moment. "Begs the question" is used incorrectly almost 99% of the time you hear it used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Then you don't believe in the evolution of language? That's how meanings of words and phrases change over time - everyone starts using them in a certain way which then becomes common.

You've hit on the conflict between linguistic prescription vs. description, for which there is, in fact, a link toward the end of your wikipedia link.

If it's used "wrong" 99% of the time, maybe it's time to change the perception of what's "wrong".

[Indy Coug]

Then you don't believe in the evolution of language? That's how meanings of words and phrases change over time - everyone starts using them in a certain way which then becomes common.

You've hit on the conflict between linguistic prescription vs. description, for which there is, in fact, a link toward the end of your wikipedia link.

If it's used "wrong" 99% of the time, maybe it's time to change the perception of what's "wrong".

That's why Shakespeare sucks.

[Hallelujah]

Thanks for proving my point.

I assume you've never played football or know anything about football. So if you are ahead in a game and your defense can't stop the other offense, you objective as a offensive coordinator is continue to throw so that the other team gains possession again. OK. Reasonable. But wrong.

I believe it's call controlling the clock. Was that your point?

[Goatnapper'96]

How so?

BYU was totally unprepared to play TCU. Emotionally and physically they were dead from the initial kick off. While such a poor performance is not characteristic of the Mendenhall era, that team was not prepared to play. That, IMO, falls on the backs of the coaches. Further, when things went south the hype and expectations resulted in the players somewhat losing drive and "not having fun" and the fans becoming brutal. BYU football wasn't fun last year and that was because so many involved in the program had fanned the flames of expectations. Regardless if Mendenhall didn't mean "Quest for Perfection" to be about 12-0 on the football field it was a dumb motto - especially for that year. I thought that Mendenhall set the team up for failure and then the club was woefully unprepared to play TCU. Many players played poorly against TCU, just that Max's play was in the spotlight.

I actually think the Utah game was more on Max than the staff. I thought the gameplan was as sound as it could be given that Utah was just a better team and if Max hadn't gone color blind BYU would have likely had a chance to be in that game until the end. That game was not the colossal overall program blunder that the TCU and bowl game were.

Finally, IMO the reason the team stunk was because the ILB and safeties stunk. I think that Mendenhall had had sufficient time to analyze his players' ability and ensure he had players better than what he had. I think if BYU had better players at those 4 positions, the team would have been much better. However, history should teach us that BYU's historical recruiting base doesn't always provide the athletes neccesary to field quality defenses year in and year out. While the shortcomings, IMO, where at positions BYU is not usually so inadequate at fielding capable players it is still reality that BYU will have a bad defense one out off every 3 years so it might be an issue without a solution. In either case I don't blame Max for much other than the Utah meltdown - which BYU probably would have lost anyway but the meltdown certainly removed any chance BYU had.

[SoCalCoug]

I don't get all the hate directed at John Walsh. From this Ute fan's perspective, he didn't lose games for BYU, the defense did.

He was an asshole - that's a lot of it. I was a student when he was there, and people who knew him or came into contact with him tended to think of him as a complete jerk.

[Indy Coug]

I assume you've never played football or know anything about football.

I have and I do. For example, I know that if your defense gives up 55 points, over 700 yards and allows a pass efficiency well north of 200, that if you lose the game, that's where the finger pointing should start.

[JohnnyLingo]

BYU was totally unprepared to play TCU. Emotionally and physically they were dead from the initial kick off. While such a poor performance is not characteristic of the Mendenhall era, that team was not prepared to play. That, IMO, falls on the backs of the coaches.

Thanks for the response.

Do you mean the team was not fired up by the coaching staff? Or were there X's and O's that the coaches failed to go over and therefore the team didn't know their assignments/had incorrect assignments?

[Hallelujah]

I have and I do. For example, I know that if your defense gives up 55 points, over 700 yards and allows a pass efficiency well north of 200, that if you lose the game, that's where the finger pointing should start.

The point is, if your defense sucks, as the OC, keep the ball out of the other team's offensive hands. You can control that. You can't control suckiness.

What was our avg. yard per running play at Tulsa? Again that only works if you are ahead and I don't recall if BYU was ever ahead.

[Hallelujah]

Thanks for the response.

Do you mean the team was not fired up by the coaching staff? Or were there X's and O's that the coaches failed to go over and therefore the team didn't know their assignments/had incorrect assignments?

Who on BYU's coaching staff is the 'fire upper'?

[Goatnapper'96]

Thanks for the response.

Do you mean the team was not fired up by the coaching staff? Or were there X's and O's that the coaches failed to go over and therefore the team didn't know their assignments/had incorrect assignments?

I don't get into fired up and emotions. I don't think that by stroking the inner thigh of Doman or Baumen they are going to go out and try harder and get any better than they already are. What I mean by unprepared is that the BYU's coaches had failed to anticipate well what TCU would try to do and design methods to take advantage of BYU's strengths versus TCU. While I think in the end TCU would have won because they were the better team, I don't accept that they were that much better. I think the TCU players were put into better positions to be successful by the TCU staff and once the BYU players figured it out they quit because they probably realized defeat was imminent. Not a conscious quitting but I think when you are trying to do what you were coached to do and it is failing miserably you get demorialized.

I would say that is more Xs and Os or a failure to properly teach whatever Xs and Os the coaches had developed.