I don't like Riley Nelson

[MarkGrace]

Based on the quote you included, that is a reasonable inference.

Earlier in the thread he said "he's the best we have right now." I took that to mean that he agreed Riley wasn't good enough. He's just what we got.

[Moliere]

Go around and around about what? Are you telling me that you think Riley is as good as BYU should be at QB?

I'm not saying that and I'm sorry I implied it. I'm not high on Riley either, but I guess I just find threads like this offensive. The kid plays his heart out, has worked harder than anyone on the team, played freakin' special teams just to get on the field, bided his time, and now that he's the starter and winning games people are bagging on him. I don't think he's going to have a senior year like Beck, but he'll do well enough to win the games we should win and he'll keep us in the games we shouldn't win.

You're the one that said he was "not very good", which is utter bull crap. The kid is very good, he's not great and he's not exceptional, but he's very good.

BYU should be better at QB, but they aren't, however that is not Riley's fault. I agree with PbW that this thread is mistargeted. When we bring in the talent we have over the past decade and then we end up with Riley starting, something is wrong with the coaching, or maybe the recruiting evaluations or both.

I just don't get the vitriol directed at Riley.

[smokymountainrain]

Hey, everyone loves a little sarcasm.

Especially me! I'm sorry I gave you a hard time for using sarcasm, I hope I never do that again.

[Blueintheface]

At least BYU didn't completely disregard the quarterback position wrt recruiting like some schools...ahem...

As many have pointed out, our highly recruited quarterbacks have simply not lived up to expectations.

[TripletDaddy]

I'm not saying that and I'm sorry I implied it. I'm not high on Riley either, but I guess I just find threads like this offensive. The kid plays his heart out, has worked harder than anyone on the team, played freakin' special teams just to get on the field, bided his time, and now that he's the starter and winning games people are bagging on him. I don't think he's going to have a senior year like Beck, but he'll do well enough to win the games we should win and he'll keep us in the games we shouldn't win.

You're the one that said he was "not very good", which is utter bull crap. The kid is very good, he's not great and he's not exceptional, but he's very good.

BYU should be better at QB, but they aren't, however that is not Riley's fault. I agree with PbW that this thread is mistargeted. When we bring in the talent we have over the past decade and then we end up with Riley starting, something is wrong with the coaching, or maybe the recruiting evaluations or both.

I just don't get the vitriol directed at Riley.

This anecdote is reaching "Jimmer playing in prison" and "Jimmer practicing in dark hallways" status.

[Tone Loc]

I'm not saying that and I'm sorry I implied it. I'm not high on Riley either, but I guess I just find threads like this offensive. The kid plays his heart out, has worked harder than anyone on the team, played freakin' special teams just to get on the field, bided his time, and now that he's the starter and winning games people are bagging on him. I don't think he's going to have a senior year like Beck, but he'll do well enough to win the games we should win and he'll keep us in the games we shouldn't win.

You're the one that said he was "not very good", which is utter bull crap. The kid is very good, he's not great and he's not exceptional, but he's very good.

BYU should be better at QB, but they aren't, however that is not Riley's fault. I agree with PbW that this thread is mistargeted. When we bring in the talent we have over the past decade and then we end up with Riley starting, something is wrong with the coaching, or maybe the recruiting evaluations or both.

I just don't get the vitriol directed at Riley.

If this is correct, then everyone should be more than satisfied. You really can't ask for more than a very good QB. If he beats Utah this week I will personally defend him against anyone that tries to disparage him. Move over Shaka, you will have company!

[Jeff Lebowski]

At least BYU didn't completely disregard the quarterback position wrt recruiting like some schools...ahem...

As many have pointed out, our highly recruited quarterbacks have simply not lived up to expectations.

Plural?

Are you arguing that BYU QBs have underperformed historically as a group? Not sure I would agree with that. Maybe true if you are talking about absurdly unrealistic fan expectations, but probably not by any objective measure.

[Shaka]

I have heard several people argue that we have been running a neutered or vanilla offense but I am not sure I buy that. Maybe we didn't see as much of Riley running as we will see this week, but other than having his own number called more, what will BYU do this week that we haven't seen? Doman called a pass-option with Kuresa. We have seen Falslev run the ball. I think we've shown everything we will run. Even on the defensive side of the ball we have had some stunts. Ziggy dropping in coverage, KVN delayed blitzes, Sampson blitzing. And against Wazzu we dropped 8 routinely. And on special teams we ran that stupid swinging gate formation. So what is not going to be vanilla this week or moving forward?

Clearly the gameplan was conservative. I counted to designed Riley runs, very limited play action, and hardly anything designed as a rollout. My take is they used this opportunity for Riley to give Riley practice as a pocket QB. If that's true then he sputtered for a couple of series and then got the hang of it.

[Commando]

Clearly the gameplan was conservative. I counted to designed Riley runs, very limited play action, and hardly anything designed as a rollout. My take is they used this opportunity for Riley to give Riley practice as a pocket QB. If that's true then he sputtered for a couple of series and then got the hang of it.

Yeah. I tend to believe that the more vanilla the playbook, the easier a time the opposing defense will have adjusting and therefore performing/matching the offense. Thus the seeming "difficulties" Riley was having versus that stout weber machine. Their gameplan was to contain the run/line of scrimmage at all costs, and we showed very little offensive creativity, so they were able to mentally keep up for a while there. However, I wouldn't count on anything but everything but the kitchen sink vs. Utah.

[Blueintheface]

Plural?

Are you arguing that BYU QBs have underperformed historically as a group? Not sure I would agree with that. Maybe true if you are talking about absurdly unrealistic fan expectations, but probably not by any objective measure.

No, no, I meant only the current group of Heaps, Munns, and Lark. Each had their own level of hype and all have been found wanting IMO (yes I realize it is most often fans who create the hype in the first place).

[Joe Public]

As many have pointed out, our highly recruited quarterbacks have simply not lived up to expectations.

Are you arguing that BYU QBs have underperformed historically as a group? Not sure I would agree with that. Maybe true if you are talking about absurdly unrealistic fan expectations, but probably not by any objective measure.

From the cougarstats website, I culled a list of BYU's QB recruits over the last ten years:

2012
Taysom Hill
Tanner Mangum
Ammon Olsen

2011
None

2010
Jake Heaps

2009
None

2008
None

2007
Jason Munns

2006
Sam Doman
Max Hall
James Lark

2005
None

2004
Jason Beck
Jacob Bower

2003
None

This doesn't pick up transfers like Riley Nelson, Cade Cooper, etc., and I don't know where to quickly get that information. However, if Heaps and Munns are the only QB recruits from the five-year period from 2007 through 2011, then one transfer (Heaps) and one apparent recruiting miss (Munns) can leave the bench of experience pretty short. Were there not other recruits during that time?

[Moliere]

This anecdote is reaching "Jimmer playing in prison" and "Jimmer practicing in dark hallways" status.

I don't think Jimmer did either of those while at BYU.

[Hsaru]

From the cougarstats website, I culled a list of BYU's QB recruits over the last ten years:

2012
Taysom Hill
Tanner Mangum
Ammon Olsen

2011
None

2010
Jake Heaps

2009
None

2008
None

2007
Jason Munns

2006
Sam Doman
Max Hall
James Lark

2005
None

2004
Jason Beck
Jacob Bower

2003
None

This doesn't pick up transfers like Riley Nelson, Cade Cooper, etc., and I don't know where to quickly get that information. However, if Heaps and Munns are the only QB recruits from the five-year period from 2007 through 2011, then one transfer (Heaps) and one apparent recruiting miss (Munns) can leave the bench of experience pretty short. Were there not other recruits during that time?

Kuresa was a QB recruit.

[Hsaru]

I think we've had a few of those.

Fine, I'll back off on the Heaps thing. Obviously I'm a fan of the kid, and that predates BYU. He grew up in my backyard, I went to his HS games, he was a standout LDS kid, and a was big local hero. I took to him and wanted him to succeed at BYU and am still really pulling for him at KU.

I would prefer that we had conversations where we actually discussed our QB on the merits instead. Why can't we be diassatisfied that our 6th year 27 year old senior QB is running three and outs against Weber St? Why can't we claim that he didn't have a very good game when he posts a 137 PER against an FCS team? I guess I just don't get why everything has to turn into a potshot against Heaps. But at this point that seems to be my probem since most seem to want to continue being petty about it.

I remember distinctly Heaps being criticized for a PER of 145 against New Mexico St, which is actually an FBS team, albeit crappy. And now 137 against a below .500 FCS team last year is now "good".

[Jeff Lebowski]

I remember distinctly Heaps being criticized for a PER of 145 against New Mexico St, which is actually an FBS team, albeit crappy. And now 137 against a below .500 FCS team last year is now "good".

You have a poor memory.