I don't like Riley Nelson

[Shaka]

Only if people are going to whine like bitches about jake every time a criticism of nelson is made.

Looks like we're having a bitch fight.

[Moliere]

I always tell my kids that whining will never change a bad situation.

This isn't true. Yesterday my oldest duaghter whined all the way to church because she didn't get "shotgun" in the car. It made her bad situation worse because she spent 4 hours on her bed after church

[MarkGrace]

Looks like we're having a bitch fight.

I think we've had a few of those.

Fine, I'll back off on the Heaps thing. Obviously I'm a fan of the kid, and that predates BYU. He grew up in my backyard, I went to his HS games, he was a standout LDS kid, and a was big local hero. I took to him and wanted him to succeed at BYU and am still really pulling for him at KU.

I would prefer that we had conversations where we actually discussed our QB on the merits instead. Why can't we be diassatisfied that our 6th year 27 year old senior QB is running three and outs against Weber St? Why can't we claim that he didn't have a very good game when he posts a 137 PER against an FCS team? I guess I just don't get why everything has to turn into a potshot against Heaps. But at this point that seems to be my probem since most seem to want to continue being petty about it.

[MarkGrace]

When you say the bolded, it makes me assume you are comparing Nelson to past QBs at BYU (otherwise you can't really set a standard right?). With that being said, I found that as far as career goes (I haven't looked at senior year), Nelson's passer efficiency rating is in the same ballpark (+/- 3 points) of Young, Walsh, Neilsen, and Bosco). The only guys significantly higher are Detmer and McMahon with Hall being higher (but not by much).

I'm not sure what to do with the PER thing. Obviously it's not something I believe in a great deal, but to the extent that people always want to use it as the baseline, I'm just not sure how much to read into what Riley has done. That schedule we played against last year by the time he took over was just awful -- and he looked terrible against the only two teams he faced that were worth a damn.

I know some have said the schedule last year was not all that different than what other BYU qb's have faced, but I think pelagius has shown this comment to be inaccurate. Even by historic terms, our schedule last year was comparatively weak. Now remove the first four games from that and what does the schedule look like? Really bad. So how great is it to have the 17 best PER or whatever against that schedule? I have no idea.

We'll see if he can keep up when the competition gets tougher, but honestly the previous QBs didn't face a schedule any tougher than what Nelson will see this year.

The schedule seems like it should be stronger this point. And if he goes out and plays well against some of those better teams, then I think some of the criticisms to this point will have been proven offbase. But until that point, I think people are going to continue/worry. And even in the first two games we've played this year, I don't think he's looked that great.

[Indy Coug]

In Riley's defense, Doman has really thrown out a lot of different personnel combinations, many of which have been necessitated by injuries. I'm not sure Apo got nearly enough reps during the fall.

In the backups' defense, I think they have done a very good job of producing when called upon (especially Ridley and Kuresa).

[MarkGrace]

In Riley's defense, Doman has really thrown out a lot of different personnel combinations, many of which have been necessitated by injuries. I'm not sure Apo got nearly enough reps during the fall.

And I get that we haven't shown much in terms of the offense through the first two games. Hopefully we'll see more in a manner beneficial to Riley.

[Shaka]

I think we've had a few of those.

Fine, I'll back off on the Heaps thing. Obviously I'm a fan of the kid, and that predates BYU. He grew up in my backyard, I went to his HS games, he was a standout LDS kid, and a was big local hero. I took to him and wanted him to succeed at BYU and am still really pulling for him at KU.

I would prefer that we had conversations where we actually discussed our QB on the merits instead. Why can't we be diassatisfied that our 6th year 27 year old senior QB is running three and outs against Weber St? Why can't we claim that he didn't have a very good game when he posts a 137 PER against an FCS team? I guess I just don't get why everything has to turn into a potshot against Heaps. But at this point that seems to be my probem since most seem to want to continue being petty about it.

You can claim he didn't have a bad game. On the surface it may look that way. However sometimes it seems that you anti-Riley guys are comparing Riley against a perfect quarterback and not against his current peers. A 130 PER isn't all that bad when you figure in that he was running a neutered offense that, by design, was intended to protect him and not show our hand to the Utes. Also take when taking into account an entire season every QB, is off on a series or two or even an entire game. It happens to all of them.

I expect Riley to have his hands full next week. He will struggle but so will Hays. However I also expect him to work through that and see success.

Also I want to see Jake succeed. With that said writing about him isn't out of bounds because he is integral to many subjects that are worth talking about.

[Surfah]

You can claim he didn't have a bad game. On the surface it may look that way. However sometimes it seems that you anti-Riley guys are comparing Riley against a perfect quarterback and not against his current peers. A 130 PER isn't all that bad when you figure in that he was running a neutered offense that, by design, was intended to protect him and not show our hand to the Utes. Also take when taking into account an entire season every QB, is off on a series or two or even an entire game. It happens to all of them.

I expect Riley to have his hands full next week. He will struggle but so will Hays. However I also expect him to work through that and see success.

Also I want to see Jake succeed. With that said writing about him isn't out of bounds because he is integral to many subjects that are worth talking about.

I have heard several people argue that we have been running a neutered or vanilla offense but I am not sure I buy that. Maybe we didn't see as much of Riley running as we will see this week, but other than having his own number called more, what will BYU do this week that we haven't seen? Doman called a pass-option with Kuresa. We have seen Falslev run the ball. I think we've shown everything we will run. Even on the defensive side of the ball we have had some stunts. Ziggy dropping in coverage, KVN delayed blitzes, Sampson blitzing. And against Wazzu we dropped 8 routinely. And on special teams we ran that stupid swinging gate formation. So what is not going to be vanilla this week or moving forward?

[Indy Coug]

I have heard several people argue that we have been running a neutered or vanilla offense but I am not sure I buy that. Maybe we didn't see as much of Riley running as we will see this week, but other than having his own number called more, what will BYU do this week that we haven't seen? Doman called a pass-option with Kuresa. We have seen Falslev run the ball. I think we've shown everything we will run. Even on the defensive side of the ball we have had some stunts. Ziggy dropping in coverage, KVN delayed blitzes, Sampson blitzing. And against Wazzu we dropped 8 routinely. And on special teams we ran that stupid swinging gate formation. So what is not going to be vanilla this week or moving forward?

Just wait and find out...

[MarkGrace]

I have heard several people argue that we have been running a neutered or vanilla offense but I am not sure I buy that. Maybe we didn't see as much of Riley running as we will see this week, but other than having his own number called more, what will BYU do this week that we haven't seen? Doman called a pass-option with Kuresa. We have seen Falslev run the ball. I think we've shown everything we will run. Even on the defensive side of the ball we have had some stunts. Ziggy dropping in coverage, KVN delayed blitzes, Sampson blitzing. And against Wazzu we dropped 8 routinely. And on special teams we ran that stupid swinging gate formation. So what is not going to be vanilla this week or moving forward?

I think they'll get him out of the pocket and move him more. Rollouts, more PA, stuff like that.

[Non Sequitur]

2012 is the Year of the Defense. What good we accomplish this year will be based on how good or bad our defense is. If the defense plays to their potential, Riley's job is to not make mistakes and give up cheap points. If our defense falters and puts the pressure on the offense to pick up the slack, we will not fare well with our road game schedule.

I have faith in our defense.

Couldn't agree more. And the truth is that I would rather have a solid defense and an unpredictable offense than the other way around. I still remember those Ken Schmidt years where you knew you had to score 40 points just to be in the game.

[TripletDaddy]

If the defense plays to their potential, Riley's job is to not make mistakes and give up cheap points.

That is his job regardless of how the defense plays.

[Indy Coug]

That is his job regardless of how the defense plays.

No, then his job expands to scoring a ton of points.

[wuapinmon]

I always tell my kids that whining will never change a bad situation.

Why do you lie to them?

[TripletDaddy]

No, then his job expands to scoring a ton of points.

The defense can play poorly without giving up lots of points, especially if the opposing team's offense is inept. It isn't necessary to score a "ton of points."