I don't like Riley Nelson

[MarkGrace]

You can claim he didn't have a bad game. On the surface it may look that way. However sometimes it seems that you anti-Riley guys are comparing Riley against a perfect quarterback and not against his current peers. A 130 PER isn't all that bad when you figure in that he was running a neutered offense that, by design, was intended to protect him and not show our hand to the Utes. Also take when taking into account an entire season every QB, is off on a series or two or even an entire game. It happens to all of them.

I'm not comparing him against the perfect QB, I think I've made that clear. Against his peers is a different conversation, but again, like Paperback said, it becomes a situation where you see it as a failure of something bigger. And that's frustrating.

Also I want to see Jake succeed. With that said writing about him isn't out of bounds because he is integral to many subjects that are worth talking about.

It's not out of bounds, nothing is out of bounds. But in most mentions he's really not relevant at all. If someone is irked that we're punting three out of first five possessions against Weber St.; if someone is annoyed that Riley goes three and out against an FCS oppoent; if people get irritated by his decision-making and just generally want to see better throws and a higher level of QB play, that doesn't really have anything to with Jake. So then, when those criticisms are levied, I'm not sure why it has to turn into potshots against Jake. Riley needs to be better because senior QB's at BYU should be better than what he's shown.

[Surfah]

I think they'll get him out of the pocket and move him more. Rollouts, more PA, stuff like that.

Riley throwing on the run? PA when we can't even run the ball? No thanks.

One thing I would like to see more is shots down field. Then again we're limited with Riley's arms and I am not sure this is a week where we want to throw some jump balls. But it would be nice to stretch the field more. Our biggest plays this year seem to have been due to YAC on slants/crossing patterns and our TEs in the seam. But we're not going vertical.

[Moliere]

Riley throwing on the run? PA when we can't even run the ball? No thanks.

One thing I would like to see more is shots down field. Then again we're limited with Riley's arm and I am not sure this is a week where we want to throw some jump balls. But it would be nice to stretch the field more. Our biggest plays this year seem to have been due to YAC on slants/crossing patterns and our TEs in the seam. But we're not going vertical.

This is very true, but to Riley's defense he's been hitting those guys in stride and helping them get YAC. Even his quick sideline throws were on against WEber State. I think he's settling down and getting more comfortable. hopefully we do go long against Utah and hopefully he gives hoffman a shot to get a ball or two out of the air.

[pelagius]

I'm not down on Riley Nelson. There is no question he is a limited quarterback. We knew that going into the season. That said people undervalue what he did last year. Based on his games alone BYU was a top 20-30 team (MOV model has his games at about 25). He lost to one good/very good team (TCU), and BYU beat one good team (I know that most around here didn't think that much of Tulsa but oddsmakers before the game had Tulsa in their top 30). He wasn't that good in the Tulsa game but he did make plays when BYU really needed him to.

The big issue, I think, is whether Riley got better this year relative to last year. I think the disappointing part so far is that his performance hasn't been obviously better when looking at both games. I thought WSU was an improved performance relative to last year. He performed well without Hoff (who went out before BYU had scored any points). I also thought he was a little more accurate, and overall made at least marginally better decisions. Weber St was, overall, a disappointing performance (even if BYU was vanilla). Carr had a passing rating over 200 against Weber St the week before (not to put to much weight on it but of the 4 FBS opponents in the last two years Nelson has the lowest efficiency rating). Still, passing efficiency is a noisy statistic. Over 4-6 games or a whole season we can infer a lot more. One game, be careful.

[TripletDaddy]

Riley throwing on the run? PA when we can't even run the ball? No thanks.

One thing I would like to see more is shots down field.

You will regret saying this.

I don't think any of us really want to see Riley taking more shots downfield.

[DU Ute]

You will regret saying this.

I don't think any of us really want to see Riley taking more shots downfield.

I do.

[TripletDaddy]

I do.

You are a nobody, though.

[smokymountainrain]

I think we've had a few of those.

Fine, I'll back off on the Heaps thing. Obviously I'm a fan of the kid, and that predates BYU. He grew up in my backyard, I went to his HS games, he was a standout LDS kid, and a was big local hero. I took to him and wanted him to succeed at BYU and am still really pulling for him at KU.

I would prefer that we had conversations where we actually discussed our QB on the merits instead. Why can't we be diassatisfied that our 6th year 27 year old senior QB is running three and outs against Weber St? Why can't we claim that he didn't have a very good game when he posts a 137 PER against an FCS team? I guess I just don't get why everything has to turn into a potshot against Heaps. But at this point that seems to be my probem since most seem to want to continue being petty about it.

I guess if we're going to discuss him on his merits, perhaps we could start by leaving out sarcastic comments about his age, because when you do that, it seems you really don't want to judge him on his merits at all, rather you are going to take a negative stance regardless.

A 137 per against Weber is not good. That said, Apo was out, he only played a half, and I think Doman called a pretty vanilla game. But yes, he has to be better than that.

[MarkGrace]

I guess if we're going to discuss him on his merits, perhaps we could start by leaving out sarcastic comments about his age, because when you do that, it seems you really don't want to judge him on his merits at all, rather you are going to take a negative stance regardless.

A 137 per against Weber is not good. That said, Apo was out, he only played a half, and I think Doman called a pretty vanilla game. But yes, he has to be better than that.

Hey, everyone loves a little sarcasm. I don't know his age or how many years he's actually been in college football. My point was he's not what I expect/hope to see given his age/experience level.

[Indy Coug]

Nelson's first 8 attempts vs Weber: 65.9 efficiency
Nelson's last 22 attempts vs Weber: 161.5 efficiency

Just like everyone else on offense, it was a sluggish start.

[Moliere]

Hey, everyone loves a little sarcasm. I don't know his age or how many years he's actually been in college football. My point was he's not what I expect/hope to see given his age/experience level.

He doesn't have a great amount of experience, at least not consistently. He's been a little bit mishandled, well maybe not, but the whole 2-QB system thing then backing up Heaps led to him not getting full reps or him even being "the man" until this year. Beck and Hall were both "the man" much earlier. He's kind of been dealt with similar to Doman, and frankly they both have the same type of game (and arm strength/accuracy). The only difference is that Doman had talent at RB and Nelson has a bunch of average RBs (at best they are average).

I suspect we can go around and around on this and no one will change their opinion. I guess we'll just let the games play out and see how he does. My predication is that we'll lose some games against tough competition, but that isn't much different from all the other senior QBs we've had over the past 40 years.

[TexTechCoug]

Nelson isn't the greatest, but doesn't the team only have one loss in games he has started?

BYU did attract and sign some fantastic HS QB's, but it didn't pan out, Heaps, Munns, and Lark all had their issues and that left a gap that was filled by Nelson. The guy has been a self-promoter and he has been a team player.

The whining is premature, but that is endemic. If it weren't Nelson there would be whining about the offensive line, the coaches, coach's apparel, the video boards, the tailgating situation, the honor code, the administration....

[MarkGrace]

He doesn't have a great amount of experience, at least not consistently. He's been a little bit mishandled, well maybe not, but the whole 2-QB system thing then backing up Heaps led to him not getting full reps or him even being "the man" until this year. Beck and Hall were both "the man" much earlier. He's kind of been dealt with similar to Doman, and frankly they both have the same type of game (and arm strength/accuracy).

Dude has a ton of experience at this point. He played as a true frosh at USU, and has played in part of at least four different seasons here (did he also redshirt other than his medical RS? I can't remember). He's got loads more experience than Doman going into his senior year.

The only difference is that Doman had talent at RB and Nelson has a bunch of average RBs (at best they are average).

That's not the only difference (though it would help him a ton to have a Staley in the backfield). Maybe I don't remember Doman that well, but he still seemed to be a better passer. At a minimum, he was drafted based on the fact that somebody thought he could throw it at a high enough level. Will Riley get drafted?

[MarkGrace]

I suspect we can go around and around on this and no one will change their opinion. I guess we'll just let the games play out and see how he does. My predication is that we'll lose some games against tough competition, but that isn't much different from all the other senior QBs we've had over the past 40 years.

Go around and around about what? Are you telling me that you think Riley is as good as BYU should be at QB?

[Indy Coug]

Are you telling me that you think Riley is as good as BYU should be at QB?

Based on the quote you included, that is a reasonable inference.