I don't like Riley Nelson

[Moliere]

Just as it's not about Young/McMahon/Detmer, it's not about Heaps either. Indy's comment that you highlighted has merit, this one doesn't.

At some point my strawmen will be right, I just need to keep trying

How about this: Riley Nelson was #17 in passer rating last year. Honestly, I'd take him over 75% of other starting QBs in the FBS.

[Surfah]

At some point my strawmen will be right, I just need to keep trying

How about this: Riley Nelson was #17 in passer rating last year. Honestly, I'd take him over 75% of other starting QBs in the FBS.

I'd take him over 50%. Not 75%. Especially if you're referencing last year's QBs.

[Clark Addison]

competitor?
fighter?
arm strength?
wins?
strikeouts?

Please be more specific.

Nolan Ryan could throw the ball 100 miles an hour and strike people out like crazy. People saw his big arm, and didn't pay as much attention to any weaknesses that he might have. When I was a kid, you used to hear people not infrequently say that he was the best pitcher of all time.

Riley has an arm that is bad enough that it is hard to look past it. Unlike Ryan, whose big gun hid his weaknesses, Riley's lack of a big gun hides his strengths.

I'll also say that I don't mean to criticize Ryan to much. He's one of my favorite pitchers, if only for what he did to Robin Ventura.

[MarkGrace]

The way some of you guys keep bringing up Heaps reminds me of the way some Utah fans keep bringing up Boylen. Unresolved feelings of betrayal and disappointment, I guess.

I don't get it either. The kid left the university almost ten months ago yet every other comment seems like it's about him.

I don't care about Riley relative to Heaps anymore, and I don't care about Riley relative to any of the all-time greats. I just watch him and to me he doesn't meet the standard of what BYU senior QB that we've committed to should be. Of course, as Indy said, he's 2-0 and ranked, so what is there to bitch about? I guess to me it's just the fact that he doesn't make the same quality of throws as what I expect for a QB at this point in his career and I'm worried that's going to catch up with him. Maybe it won't and he can just keep getting it done. For now that's the discussion point.

[Green Monstah]

Nolan Ryan could throw the ball 100 miles an hour and strike people out like crazy. People saw his big arm, and didn't pay as much attention to any weaknesses that he might have. When I was a kid, you used to hear people not infrequently say that he was the best pitcher of all time.

Riley has an arm that is bad enough that it is hard to look past it. Unlike Ryan, whose big gun hid his weaknesses, Riley's lack of a big gun hides his strengths.

I'll also say that I don't mean to criticize Ryan to much. He's one of my favorite pitchers, if only for what he did to Robin Ventura.

"greatest all-time" arguments are silly, but I love me some Nolan Ryan. Played for a lot of bad teams, threw flames, lot's of Ks, had a low ERA. Imagine if he'd played for the Reds, Dodgers or Yankees, I bet his case of greatest ever would be pretty solid.

[Clark Addison]

"greatest all-time" arguments are silly, but I love me some Nolan Ryan. Played for a lot of bad teams, threw flames, lot's of Ks, had a low ERA. Imagine if he'd played for the Reds, Dodgers or Yankees, I bet his case of greatest ever would be pretty solid.

Not if he still walked almost 5 batters every 9 innings, it wouldn't. As I said, I hate to bash on Ryan, and he was definitely great, but I disagree about him being close to the top spot. His ERAs were good, but he pitched most of his career in the Astrodome (maybe the best pitcher's park ever) and in California (a good pitcher's park at the time). His 1.69 ERA in 1981 was great, but his 3.16 ERA the next year, pitching in the Astrodome, was nothing that special.

[Paperback Writer]

I think the Riley Nelson criticism is really a frustration with BYU coaches. In my view, it's part of the human condition to target the player running the offense as opposed to the coaches who recruited him and designated Nelson the starter. As others have pointed out, Nelson plays all-out, is probably doing his best, but will make mistakes. It's "natural" to crticize Nelson rather than the many events that led to his being the starting quarterback. It's also easier to criticize the QB than the five O-linemen in front of him.

I've seen this occur at Nebraska. Nebraska fans have been critical of Taylor Martinez because he had/has poor throwing mechanics and sometimes makes very poor decisions. But what they're really critical of is this: this is the best the Nebraska coaching staff could do? Starting a RS Freshman who nobody else recruited as QB and wanted only as a safety! I have to remind myself that Martinez is doing the best he can and at times is an excellent QB. He also plays behind an O-line that has many of the same weekness as BYU's O-line. So I cheer for Martinez and Nebraska because that's what's on the field - those are the guys who signed on although I really wish the coaching staff would do better with recruiting.

About 15 years ago, something similar happened to Scott Frost - he was the QB who followed Tommie Frazier at Nebraska. Nelson and Frost are similar QBs - blue collar QBs who can run (Nelson is a much better passer; Frost played while Nebraska was running a power-option offense). I'm a fan of Riley Nelson for this reason - I like cheering for the underdog. The blue collar QB with so-so talent. That's one of the big reasons I love college football. I'm hoping for a Scott Frost type of ending for Riley. One where he has a successful senior season and leads BYU to a bowl game victory. For those who care or are still reading this - Scott Frost's Nebraska team beat Peyton Manning's Tennesse team in the Orange Bowl.

[Shaka]

I don't get it either. The kid left the university almost ten months ago yet every other comment seems like it's about him.

I don't care about Riley relative to Heaps anymore, and I don't care about Riley relative to any of the all-time greats. I just watch him and to me he doesn't meet the standard of what BYU senior QB that we've committed to should be. Of course, as Indy said, he's 2-0 and ranked, so what is there to bitch about? I guess to me it's just the fact that he doesn't make the same quality of throws as what I expect for a QB at this point in his career and I'm worried that's going to catch up with him. Maybe it won't and he can just keep getting it done. For now that's the discussion point.

So are you going to whine like a bitch every time Jake is brought up in a post?

Like it or not Jake is woven into the tapestry of BYU Football and he will be referenced for good or bad for years to come. Think Ben Olson only worse.

[MarkGrace]

So are you going to whine like a bitch every time Jake is brought up in a post?

Like it or not Jake is woven into the tapestry of BYU Football and he will be referenced for good or bad for years to come. Think Ben Olson only worse.

Uh oh, just as yohio predicted. Lol.

[Shaka]

Uh oh, just as yohio predicted. Lol.

The question still stands.

[MarkGrace]

The question still stands.

Only if people are going to whine like bitches about jake every time a criticism of nelson is made.

[Moliere]

I don't care about Riley relative to Heaps anymore, and I don't care about Riley relative to any of the all-time greats. I just watch him and to me he doesn't meet the standard of what BYU senior QB that we've committed to should be. Of course, as Indy said, he's 2-0 and ranked, so what is there to bitch about? I guess to me it's just the fact that he doesn't make the same quality of throws as what I expect for a QB at this point in his career and I'm worried that's going to catch up with him. Maybe it won't and he can just keep getting it done. For now that's the discussion point.

When you say the bolded, it makes me assume you are comparing Nelson to past QBs at BYU (otherwise you can't really set a standard right?). With that being said, I found that as far as career goes (I haven't looked at senior year), Nelson's passer efficiency rating is in the same ballpark (+/- 3 points) of Young, Walsh, Neilsen, and Bosco). The only guys significantly higher are Detmer and McMahon with Hall being higher (but not by much).

We'll see if he can keep up when the competition gets tougher, but honestly the previous QBs didn't face a schedule any tougher than what Nelson will see this year.

[MarkGrace]

Btw, paperback's post hits on a lot of truth for me. It's just frustrating to watch riley and know that amidst the type of qb talent that byu is able to attract, the talent that has come through the program, etc., that this is the best the byu coaches could come up with. But as indy said, the whining right now is probably premature.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Btw, paperback's post hits on a lot of truth for me. It's just frustrating to watch riley and know that amidst the type of qb talent that byu is able to attract, the talent that has come through the program, etc., that this is the best the byu coaches could come up with. But as indy said, the whining right now is probably premature.

I always tell my kids that whining will never change a bad situation.

[Indy Coug]

Btw, paperback's post hits on a lot of truth for me. It's just frustrating to watch riley and know that amidst the type of qb talent that byu is able to attract, the talent that has come through the program, etc., that this is the best the byu coaches could come up with. But as indy said, the whining right now is probably premature.

2012 is the Year of the Defense. What good we accomplish this year will be based on how good or bad our defense is. If the defense plays to their potential, Riley's job is to not make mistakes and give up cheap points. If our defense falters and puts the pressure on the offense to pick up the slack, we will not fare well with our road game schedule.

I have faith in our defense.