BYU's football program

[ERCougar]

I am no expert but I would start with no dounts at halftime and go from there.

LOL...is there a specific story behind this, or just a general comment?

[Paperback Writer]

I think the ego massaging style only works if your program can attract enough of the top end kids to make it work. Even if BYU got all of the top end LDS kids they miss on, they are going to need a shitload of overachievers in support to be elite. I don't see how one can realistically expect Mendenhall to have a program that caters to superstars while still inspiring the mediocres to become Rudy. He needs to make an executive decision of what side he sits, I don't think anyone with much knowledge on the history of the LDS recruiting base can believe BYU can be elite relying upon consistent LDS superstars.

I thought the drinking incident was more of the reason Manti Teo elected to go to Notre Dame. But even if was something along the line of a message from the coaching staff that "to play here you have to earn it." It seems obvious to me that message changed with Jake Heaps and that situation ended even more ugly than the Teo case. In the long and short haul I think Mendnehall and BYU is better off with the mentality that you have to earn it and emphasizing overachieving. The reality is that there is not enough high end LDS recuits to justify that recruiting approach.

I think a "straw man" is being built with the whole "catering to superstars while still inspiring the mediocres to become Rudy". Programs such as Nebraska and Wisconsin are not filled with superstar recruiting classes and they don't cater to superstars while getting their 3-star, 2-star, and even walk-ons to overachieve. What occurs at Nebraska and Wisconsin is that the overachievers actually elevate the play of the 4-star recruits because they realize that their stars are meaningless once the pads are on and they must earn their playing time. Likewise, the overachievers are pushed even further when they see the talent of the superstars and realize that they have to run precise receiving routes and take exact pursuit angles to the ball carrier because they don't have the athleticism to make up for less than excellent fundamentals.

I'm not as familar with BYU football as many here. But reading that superstar egos have to be stroked or that BYU has to somehow choose between catering to those egos and inspiring the rest of the team to overachieve is almost beyond belief. If there is a problem, perhaps its the whole "football is fifth mentality". I'm not going to disparage Bronco because I don't invest in BYU football as much as many CUFers and I think he's a very good coach for BYU. But I do know that if a starting or projected starting QB missed the great majority of summer workouts for a reason other than injury, they would be third-string at best on the fall camp depth chart at Nebraska and more likely not on the team.

[Goatnapper'96]

What do you guys think about the OL next year? I was tremendously disappointed with their play in 2011. Is it personnel, coaching, conditioning, all of the above?

I think the BYU OL has been pretty consistent since 2006, perhaps as early as 2005. The issue with BYU's OL is that these kids don't seem to improve a great deal while at BYU. Many want to fire Omer, Weber or Bronco. I think the real reason is that many of them got to BYU really well polished and once they get back into shape after a mission they are pretty good college OL. I could be wrong and perhaps a change in coaching would be beneficial but from where I sit it seems to me that BYU puts a bunch of young kids on the field and they do pretty well and are probably a top 25 or so OL. Then we all get our g's in a wad expecting them to be like the Broncos from the mid 90's and spend the next couple of years calling for everyone from Louis Wong to Weber to Omer to Bronco to Holmoe to God to be fired because the don't show significant improvement. Then we throw a bunch of young players out there and the cycle starts over again.

I think the OL will be good enough next year.

[Flystripper]

LOL...is there a specific story behind this, or just a general comment?

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/po...ss-preview-byu

[ERCougar]

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/po...ss-preview-byu

Oh boy. I've never been an offensive lineman, but in my athletic experience, a donut is the last thing that I would want to eat in the middle of any kind of game. WTH?

[byu71]

I think the BYU OL has been pretty consistent since 2006, perhaps as early as 2005. The issue with BYU's OL is that these kids don't seem to improve a great deal while at BYU. Many want to fire Omer, Weber or Bronco. I think the real reason is that many of them got to BYU really well polished and once they get back into shape after a mission they are pretty good college OL. I could be wrong and perhaps a change in coaching would be beneficial but from where I sit it seems to me that BYU puts a bunch of young kids on the field and they do pretty well and are probably a top 25 or so OL. Then we all get our g's in a wad expecting them to be like the Broncos from the mid 90's and spend the next couple of years calling for everyone from Louis Wong to Weber to Omer to Bronco to Holmoe to God to be fired because the don't show significant improvement. Then we throw a bunch of young players out there and the cycle starts over again.

I think the OL will be good enough next year.

I think it is pretty hard to improve unless you are highly motivated. You have to be a special athlete I would think to be motivated to play the OL.

Another issue a friend and I were talking about is missions. We both agreed while some desire can be lost, there are plenty of examples of guys who came back with fire still burning or reignited.

However, is coming back and getting married a double whammy. Are all the OL RM's married? Beck still had the fire and had the RM married label. Can you think of any others?

[woot]

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/po...ss-preview-byu

Uh... wow. That would be a great idea if the plan is to win the game in the first 3 minutes of the 3rd quarter. Where is the S&C staff while this is going on?

[venkman]

I think the BYU OL has been pretty consistent since 2006, perhaps as early as 2005. The issue with BYU's OL is that these kids don't seem to improve a great deal while at BYU. Many want to fire Omer, Weber or Bronco. I think the real reason is that many of them got to BYU really well polished and once they get back into shape after a mission they are pretty good college OL. I could be wrong and perhaps a change in coaching would be beneficial but from where I sit it seems to me that BYU puts a bunch of young kids on the field and they do pretty well and are probably a top 25 or so OL. Then we all get our g's in a wad expecting them to be like the Broncos from the mid 90's and spend the next couple of years calling for everyone from Louis Wong to Weber to Omer to Bronco to Holmoe to God to be fired because the don't show significant improvement. Then we throw a bunch of young players out there and the cycle starts over again.

I think the OL will be good enough next year.

If our O-linemen aren't improving then that's coaching and conditioning. So yeah, make another change. Look, I know Idaho Scando farm boys are gonna struggle against your more athletic DE's, but our pass blocking has got to improve if we don't want Abs Nelson running for his life and making stupid ass pick-six decisions. I know we can do better.

[Goatnapper'96]

If our O-linemen aren't improving then that's coaching and conditioning. So yeah, make another change. Look, I know Idaho Scando farm boys are gonna struggle against your more athletic DE's, but our pass blocking has got to improve if we don't want Abs Nelson running for his life and making stupid ass pick-six decisions. I know we can do better.

Nelson has generally had adequate time to throw the ball. IMO, he is not a good passer and unless forced to not wanting to throw the ball unless somebody is open. Most sacks are not the result of poor OL play but Nelson not getting rid of the ball quick enough. IMO, OL play is not a huge concern to me. I think they can be better, no doubt, but I think they have played pretty well.

[Indy Coug]

Most sacks are not the result of poor OL play but Nelson not getting rid of the ball quick enough. IMO, OL play is not a huge concern to me. I think they can be better, no doubt, but I think they have played pretty well.

This is correct.

[woot]

Nelson has generally had adequate time to throw the ball. IMO, he is not a good passer and unless forced to not wanting to throw the ball unless somebody is open. Most sacks are not the result of poor OL play but Nelson not getting rid of the ball quick enough. IMO, OL play is not a huge concern to me. I think they can be better, no doubt, but I think they have played pretty well.

I don't know. I think the OL took a step back this year, even granting that Nelson doesn't make great decisions. There were several times when blitzers came through untouched, which might be on Nelson as the OL can only do so much, but there were also a lot of times when a standard rush got to Nelson way too fast.

I do think the bigger issue is run blocking, which just wasn't great this year. Better backs could have hidden that more, it's true, but in a lot of cases there just wasn't anywhere for the backs to go. It's hard to know whether its due to bad technique, bad conditioning, bad play design, bad playcalling, or inexperience at QB not allowing checks, but something was broken.

[BigPiney]

I don't know. I think the OL took a step back this year, even granting that Nelson doesn't make great decisions. There were several times when blitzers came through untouched, which might be on Nelson as the OL can only do so much, but there were also a lot of times when a standard rush got to Nelson way too fast.

I do think the bigger issue is run blocking, which just wasn't great this year. Better backs could have hidden that more, it's true, but in a lot of cases there just wasn't anywhere for the backs to go. It's hard to know whether its due to bad technique, bad conditioning, bad play design, bad playcalling, or inexperience at QB not allowing checks, but something was broken.

I wonder if the blitzes not being picked up really falls to the fact that our rbs did not play well and were not picking up assignments.

Also the oline is huge in not a good way. This goes to the donuts at halftime thing. I think they would have a group coronary if they tried to run an uptempo offense like Oregon did.

[MarkGrace]

I wonder if the blitzes not being picked up really falls to the fact that our rbs did not play well and were not picking up assignments.

There were several instances where our RB's seem to whiff picking up blitzes. I'm hoping this is another area where Pritchard can really give us a boost.

Also the oline is huge in not a good way. This goes to the donuts at halftime thing. I think they would have a group coronary if they tried to run an uptempo offense like Oregon did.

This season we again heard the offseason hype that the o-line was looking slimmer and more fit than in years past. And the first thing we saw was the media guide poster where the bellies were looking noticably reduced. Turns out that was just some serious airbrushing and they were all still a bunch of fat asses.

[Eddie]

I don't worry about donuts at half time. As I recall, the article talks about one player's dad giving him a cougar tail and all of the OL sharing it. That can't be more than a bite or two each. I doubt it has much affect one way or the other to their play.

... but there were also a lot of times when a standard rush got to Nelson way too fast....

I noticed in the bowl game that there were times when the standard rush got to Nelson too fast - because of Nelson rolling outside of the pocket on a play that was not designed as a roll out. He needs to learn to step up in the pocket if necessary - but to stay in the pocket.

When he rolls outside of the pocket then he suddenly moves from having an OL between he and the DL to having no one between he and the DL - and the OL's only option at that point is to hold the DL who is trying to turn around and run at Nelson, or to pray for the best for Nelson and see what the kid makes of the play.

Hopefully this is one of the improvements Nelson can make this off season. Some pocket awareness - and the ability to not make his OL's job any more difficult.

[Surfah]

Sure

Some of the alleged team schisms developed because of a fractured leadership. Jake, even though highly touted, shouldn't be expected to take up that mantle nor should he have expected to be automatically given the mantle. A path should be in place where leaders:

a) Are upperclassmen who have earned the title through good play on the field and set the standard in the off-season by working hard and setting the example. Sometimes this is going to involve calling out younger players when they fail to work hard.

b) Coordinate off-season activities as well as mentoring younger players. This includes helping players adjust to the unique culture of BYU.

c) Identify potential team chemistry and player problems while working together with coaches to resolve problems.

Using Jake as an example I think an area where Bronco needs work is setting expectation and roles for players new to the system. Freshmen and other younger players, no matter how highly touted, need to understand that they aren't, "The Man". They may become, "The Man" but they need to be humble and wait their turn while demonstrating that they are willing to follow for a year or two until it's their turn to take a leadership role. They also need to understand that current team leadership may test them on occasion. This is true even if said player has a starting role or plays frequently. Van Noy is a good example of someone who did things the correct way.

I get this, but at the same time I think it's a bit silly. I don't think there is a correct way. We discussed this some in other threads. Of course an environment where leaders emerge organically is ideal, but that doesn't always happen. In fact I think it doesn't happen that often. Leaders emerge because the coach has designated them a leader. IMO, this is where Bronco failed. What you describe in the last paragraph is a very old school approach to a new game and new generation of players. I don't think the path you describe needs to exist. I much prefer the Uncle Pete approach.