Revenge of the Haoles - BYU vs. Hawaii 2011

[Surfah]

I don't think that's Surfah's assumption. To me his assumption is not that he's destined to be great, it's that he could be great and the other guy is too limited reach that same echelon; so with scheduling being such that the results aren't going to vary drastically based on the performance of the QB, why not play for great?

And of course that's where I'd put myself as well. Though I realize it's a lot easier call from my vantage point as a fan on the couch -- not as easy when you're the coach.

Yup.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I thought this link was 18 pages because people were actually still talking about that awful game. Turns out it's just a CUF retread.

lol. Maybe I gave the prize away too soon.

[Surfah]

No. I don't like it when someone puts a person before the program. The Beck guys did it. Now the Heaps guys are doing it. BYU didn't f*** over Heaps. He f***ed over BYU.

Players are put before programs all the time. And I am not even sure of your point, because I am not sure how Heaps was put before the program here. Anyway, great coaches are able to manage that. I have said it before, but I believe that Bronco is about as good a coach as BYU can muster, but he would struggle coaching at any school that recruited blue chip talent consistently.

[jay santos]

I don't think that's Surfah's assumption. To me his assumption is not that he's destined to be great, it's that he could be great and the other guy is too limited reach that same echelon; so with scheduling being such that the results aren't going to vary drastically based on the performance of the QB, why not play for great?

And of course that's where I'd put myself as well. Though I realize it's a lot easier call from my vantage point as a fan on the couch -- not as easy when you're the coach.

OK, then it still comes down to how you place probabilities on both QB's.


Let's say you think:
Riley is a 5 and his cap is a 6. And you think Heaps is a 4 and his cap is a 10 with an expectation of an 8.

But what if Bronco thinks:
Riley is a 6 and his cap is an 8 with an expectation of a 7. And Heaps is a 2 with a cap of 10 and an expectation of a 6.5.


What if that? Now Bronco's not an idiot. Now he's not creating a QB controversy. Now he's not ruining the franchise QB. Now he's just doing the right thing. This is the entirety of the issue.

The whole thing boils down to how you evaluate these two guys. There's no way to definitely say Bronco's an idiot unless you hear his opinion on the two guys and you see both guys play their careers out and say who was right you or Bronco.

I think you guys are completely out to lunch on this Heaps stuff. He's on his third or fourth chance now, and he still isn't doing much to turn anybody on.

[Blueintheface]

Wow. I am telling you folks again that you should try avoiding CUF during a game and then come back to read the comments after the game is over. Fascinating stuff. If I didn't know the score, I would swear we got destroyed by Hawaii and played horribly.

Let's see here: Vegas had BYU favored by 8 points. We easily beat the spread and won by 21. Riley Nelson was 25/37 for 363 yds with 3 TDs and zero INTs. 363 yds is a season high for him by a long shot. PER = a very impressive 176.7.

OH THE HUMANITY!!!!! :igiveup: :igiveup2:

Just for fun, I cherry-picked some quotes from the thread to give you sense of just how awful this 41-20 win actually was.















I was all ready to award to award the "The Sky is Falling!" fan award to Blueintheface, but HSARU swooped in at the end and snatched it away with this little bit of message board gold (speaking on Riley):

lol. Maybe I gave the prize away too soon.

I stand by my comments, the second half notwithstanding. You can suckle at his teat if you'd like but Bronco thinks he's the Messiah returned. He's a LIAR and a Pharisee and I'm tired of him being the spokesperson for this independence bullshit. He's a Yes man and a fireside cheerleader. Losing to any and all good teams will be his legacy, plain and simple.

[jay santos]

Players are put before programs all the time. And I am not even sure of your point, because I am not sure how Heaps was put before the program here. Anyway, great coaches are able to manage that. I have said it before, but I believe that Bronco is about as good a coach as BYU can muster, but he would struggle coaching at any school that recruited blue chip talent consistently.

Yeah you misunderstand. I mean the fans putting a player before the program. Like Beck's father and uncle posting on the internet back in the day. Or Hsaru now. And the people that join their camps.

[Surfah]

OK, then it still comes down to how you place probabilities on both QB's.


Let's say you think:
Riley is a 5 and his cap is a 6. And you think Heaps is a 4 and his cap is a 10 with an expectation of an 8.

But what if Bronco thinks:
Riley is a 6 and his cap is an 8 with an expectation of a 7. And Heaps is a 2 with a cap of 10 and an expectation of a 6.5.


What if that? Now Bronco's not an idiot. Now he's not creating a QB controversy. Now he's not ruining the franchise QB. Now he's just doing the right thing. This is the entirety of the issue.

The whole thing boils down to how you evaluate these two guys. There's no way to definitely say Bronco's an idiot unless you hear his opinion on the two guys and you see both guys play their careers out and say who was right you or Bronco.

I think you guys are completely out to lunch on this Heaps stuff. He's on his third or fourth chance now, and he still isn't doing much to turn anybody on.

Bronco's opinion was that Jake was an NFL QB. This as recent as two weeks ago.

[Coach McGuirk]

Bronco's opinion was that Jake was an NFL QB. This as recent as two weeks ago.

He must think Nelson is a NFL HOFer. If we could only get a 22 riley nelsons on the team. What a great and glorious day that would be!

[Surfah]

Yeah you misunderstand. I mean the fans putting a player before the program. Like Beck's father and uncle posting on the internet back in the day. Or Hsaru now. And the people that join their camps.

Isn't that what fans who think they know best do? That's what I am doing.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I stand by my comments, the second half notwithstanding. You can suckle at his teat if you'd like but Bronco thinks he's the Messiah returned. He's a LIAR and a Pharisee and I'm tired of him being the spokesperson for this independence bullshit. He's a Yes man and a fireside cheerleader. Losing to any and all good teams will be his legacy, plain and simple.

You aren't paying attention. I don't like Bronco either. But if you are going to have a meltdown like that in a game that we win by 21 points, then I think you need to consider doing some recalibration.

[Viking]

You aren't paying attention. I don't like Bronco either. But if you are going to have a meltdown like that in a game that we win by 21 points, then I think you need to consider doing some recalibration.

CLueless and I returned a little late from a samba club on Sat night and I missed the first half of the game but read some of the comments first (before seeing the score) and thought: oh, no, must be a blowout. 13-10.

BYU fans are big babies.

[Blueintheface]

You aren't paying attention. I don't like Bronco either. But if you are going to have a meltdown like that in a game that we win by 21 points, then I think you need to consider doing some recalibration.

I stand by my meltdown. It was the culmination of the shittiest winning season in BYU football. Two games in 4 weeks against the dregs and we came out flat. Bronco flat out lying about several things just in the past few weeks and it spoke directly to my top 3 issues with Bronco.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I stand by my meltdown. It was the culmination of the shittiest winning season in BYU football. Two games in 4 weeks against the dregs and we came out flat. Bronco flat out lying about several things just in the past few weeks and it spoke directly to my top 3 issues with Bronco.

I realize the irony of me saying this, given that I run the board, but I think you take this stuff far too seriously.

[Surfah]

CLueless and I returned a little late from a samba club on Sat night and I missed the first half of the game but read some of the comments first (before seeing the score) and thought: oh, no, must be a blowout. 13-10.

BYU fans are big babies.

This is hilarious given your seemingly daily profanity laced rants in recent months when you claimed BYU was bungling every avenue to the Big 12.

[Viking]

This is hilarious given your seemingly daily profanity laced rants in recent months when you claimed BYU was bungling every avenue to the Big 12.

and your point is...??

was that not correct? oh, unless you're in the SU camp of course.