The Heaps of Goodbyes Thread

[Jacob]

The sad reality is BYU likely loses 3 of the 4 games your mentioned with either qb next year.

Have a little faith! Utah is not good. Boise will lose Moore. ND has proven nothing. OK...so we still likely lose 3. You are probably right.

[Hsaru]

I don't get the posters who say Jake would suck next year, but then believe he will somehow magically be good by 2013. If he can't improve sitting out half this year and another offseason to be better than Riley Nelson, than I don't see a future for him.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I don't get the posters who say Jake would suck next year, but then believe he will somehow magically be good by 2013. If he can't improve sitting out half this year and another offseason to be better than Riley Nelson, than I don't see a future for him.

But according to your logic by not beating out Riley at any point in time ever it proves that Jake sucks and will never be good. So why do you want him next year? He can't beat out Riley now.

[Blueintheface]

But according to your logic by not beating out Riley at any point in time ever it proves that Jake sucks and will never be good. So why do you want him next year? He can't beat out Riley now.

Just stop. Right now he's somewhere between denial and acceptance (I think this stage is called Don't Touch Me).

[Hsaru]

But according to your logic by not beating out Riley at any point in time ever it proves that Jake sucks and will never be good. So why do you want him next year? He can't beat out Riley now.

I stated what happened this year, combination of rookie OC who had never called a play in his life, trying to bring in a whole new offense that has never been run at BYU. Offensive execution sucks with either QB, but the QB that's biggest strength is broken plays excels against the dregs of the WAC and struggles against the only real team he plays in TCU... Riley gets to keep the job because we are playing the dregs of CFB...not exactly a resounding showing for Nelson.

[Commando]

I don't get the posters who say Jake would suck next year, but then believe he will somehow magically be good by 2013. If he can't improve sitting out half this year and another offseason to be better than Riley Nelson, than I don't see a future for him.

I stated what happened this year, combination of rookie OC who had never called a play in his life, trying to bring in a whole new offense that has never been run at BYU. Offensive execution sucks with either QB, but the QB that's biggest strength is broken plays excels against the dregs of the WAC and struggles against the only real team he plays in TCU... Riley gets to keep the job because we are playing the dregs of CFB...not exactly a resounding showing for Nelson.

So you're saying that another year for the team and Jake to learn Doman's system would not be beneficial to Jake before he takes the field? Another off-season and he should be at max output level, otherwise no future for him? Did I correctly restate your opinion here?

[Hsaru]

So you're saying that another year for the team and Jake to learn Doman's system would not be beneficial to Jake before he takes the field? Another off-season and he should be at max output level, otherwise no future for him? Did I correctly restate your opinion here?

If he can't learn it the rest of this year and this offseason, I see no reason for a magical jump in 2013 in ability. We really screwed up somewhere along the line in either recruiting or player development if we have a 5 star and two 4 stars who will be upperclassmen who can't beat out Riley Nelson. Sad state of affairs our program is in.

[Eddie]

If he can't learn it the rest of this year and this offseason, I see no reason for a magical jump in 2013 in ability. We really screwed up somewhere along the line in either recruiting or player development if we have a 5 star and two 4 stars who will be upperclassmen who can't beat out Riley Nelson. Sad state of affairs our program is in.

I don't get this.

Are you honestly saying that there has NEVER been a player with fewer stars who ended up being better than a player with more stars? Or that it never should happen?

It seems to me that this is what you are saying, and I have to disagree. While I like getting players with stars - because that tends to mean that a lot of people think they are going to be good - there will always be guys who outperform guys with more stars than them.

Now - should the coaches ask questions about what they are doing to evaluate and develop players? Sure.

But should they throw out everything they've ever done in evaluating and developing players? Of course not.

Sometimes those guys without any stars end up being pretty good. How many WR's on the team right now had more stars than Cody Hoffman? How many TE's on the team right now had more stars than a couple of walk-on TE's in Dennis Pita or Chad Lewis?

[Hsaru]

I don't get this.

Are you honestly saying that there has NEVER been a player with fewer stars who ended up being better than a player with more stars? Or that it never should happen?

It seems to me that this is what you are saying, and I have to disagree. While I like getting players with stars - because that tends to mean that a lot of people think they are going to be good - there will always be guys who outperform guys with more stars than them.

Now - should the coaches ask questions about what they are doing to evaluate and develop players? Sure.

But should they throw out everything they've ever done in evaluating and developing players? Of course not.

Sometimes those guys without any stars end up being pretty good. How many WR's on the team right now had more stars than Cody Hoffman? How many TE's on the team right now had more stars than a couple of walk-on TE's in Dennis Pita or Chad Lewis?

I'm judging Riley Nelson on from what I've seen, not stars. I have very little to go on for Munns and Lark besides their stars and what little I've seen in spring/fall practice. But they must have been huge busts if they can't and won't be able to compete with what I've seen from Riley Nelson.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I hope Jake Heaps is the starter next year.

[Art Vandelay]

I don't get the posters who say Jake would suck next year, but then believe he will somehow magically be good by 2013. If he can't improve sitting out half this year and another offseason to be better than Riley Nelson, than I don't see a future for him.

I could be mistaken (heck, I missed the whole point Gracie was making about unattractive bassists) but I tried to elucidate what I feel is a very valid reason for redshirting next year. Riley and Jake have already had their Hayley Mills moment - barring injury, the fans, the media, and probably most of the team will think Riley has earned the right to start. I don't think Jake Saracen is mentally tough enough to hear the whispers, or the chants for Riley McCoy, at the first sign of trouble.

An extra year, not only gives him the ability to find his mental groove but takes him out of competition with the perceived ability (which will be much harder to beat than the actual ability) of Johnny Lawrence.

[Hsaru]

I could be mistaken (heck, I missed the whole point Gracie was making about unattractive bassists) but I tried to elucidate what I feel is a very valid reason for redshirting next year. Riley and Jake have already had their Hayley Mills moment - barring injury, the fans, the media, and probably most of the team will think Riley has earned the right to start. I don't think Jake Saracen is mentally tough enough to hear the whispers, or the chants for Riley McCoy, at the first sign of trouble.

An extra year, not only gives him the ability to find his mental groove but takes him out of competition with the perceived ability (which will be much harder to beat than the actual ability) of Johnny Lawrence.

If this is a concern, Jake will never be a good QB. Doman needs to gear up to have Hill ready in 2013.

[Hsaru]

http://www.heraldextra.com/sports/college/byu/football/article_3ccfa4c4-0b51-11e1-ab9e-001cc4c002e0.html

New article with quotes from Heaps when asked about if he is thinking of transferring. Didn't get the "excited" vibe about redshirting that Bronco got. If Heaps ends up transferring because he was told he won't be allowed to compete with Riley fricking Nelson in the offseason, than the coaches have botched this situation to a ridiculous degree.

[NorthShoreCoug]

Like many of you, I don't find the current situation in Provo very reassuring. But for Hsaru and those others who are Heaps' defenders, just a few notes on the situation:

First, Heaps' best outing this year was Ol' Miss, where his pass efficiency rating was 116. In contrast, Riley's performance against TCU was his worst, and was 112 (his next lowest is 160 against Oregon State and San Jose State). And of course, that doesn't include his 84 rushing yards.

In the two games where both quarterbacks saw significant minutes:
Utah State - Heaps 80, Nelson 205.
Idaho State - Heaps 116, Nelson 229.

While running the offense, Heaps has led BYU to 14, 16, 10, 24, and 20 (I extrapolated USU from 13 pts in 40 minutes being equal to 20 pts in 60 minutes). Nelson has led BYU to 42(14 pts in 20 min at USU), 29, 38, 56, and 28 pts. And yes, I do realize the competition has largely taken a dive, but against TCU, he still led the team to more points than Heaps' best performance.

To try to adjust for the competition, I ran a simple statistic that compared BYU's scoring against team A to the average pts given up by team A against other competition. So for example, against Texas, BYU scored 16 pts, but Texas averages giving up 22.3 PPG (with BYU removed). So BYU scored 6.3 pts less than expected in this example. With Heaps in the lineup, BYU averaged scoring 7.1 pts less than expected, while with Nelson, BYU scores 6.4 more than expected - a difference of 13.5 pts. (Note that I didn't include Idaho State in Riley's numbers.)

I hope Jake ends up being a great BYU QB, but there is nothing about an objective look at the numbers to make one assume Jake should be starting ahead of Riley, whether this year or next. Even if Jake outperforms him in spring practice, I'm not sure you go with him, because he did that this past year, and look how that has panned out.

And no, I'm not a true believer in Riley as being a great BYU QB, either.

[Hot Lunch]

http://www.heraldextra.com/sports/co...cc4c002e0.html

New article with quotes from Heaps when asked about if he is thinking of transferring. Didn't get the "excited" vibe about redshirting that Bronco got. If Heaps ends up transferring because he was told he won't be allowed to compete with Riley fricking Nelson in the offseason, than the coaches have botched this situation to a ridiculous degree.

I doubt the coaches will ever tell Heaps or any player that they can't compete for the starting job in the offseason. That is what spring is all about.