Was that a worst case scenario for our QB situation?

[Tone Loc]

So tell me, where's the disconnect between him killing it in practice and going to pieces in the games? He's always killed it in practice.

I wish we knew. But I do know that he is still really young, and live reps when the running game and oline aren't completely overmatched could do him a world of good. If doman called for spot passes and screens instead of deep outs that could really help as well. He was given way too much, and I put a lot of that on doman.

[jay santos]

For all intents and purposes, practice isn't enough for Jake, he needs game reps. I heard that Jake was so good in practice last week and riley so bad, that doman and bronco were wondering what in the hell they were going to do. He kills it in practice.

If you want riley because he is a gamer, etc. etc., fine, but just realize you are most likely capping the performance of this team for the next year and a half. On the other hand, if you let jake ride it out you will still get to your precious armed forces bowls, but there is a greater chance that he grows up, hits his potential, and takes this team to a level that riley couldnt do.

Is there ever a point you cut your losses and put Jake on the bench?

I think the disconnect with you guys that want Jake to start is that you truly believe he's a game or two from coming around. What if he doesn't?

[pellegrino]

Is there ever a point you cut your losses and put Jake on the bench?

I think the disconnect with you guys that want Jake to start is that you truly believe he's a game or two from coming around. What if he doesn't?

I think he's definitely more than a game or two away from it. In every interview I've seen him in he just shrugs off every poor element of his play, takes no responsibility and apparently can't see where he is lacking. Sure, you can put blame on Doman for giving him too much too soon, but in the end Heaps has to own up to his mistakes. I haven't seen him do that. You can't teach someone who isn't humble enough to recognize they don't know it all. I understand that this is all new for him, but something is wrong in Heaps' head. I don't know how long it will take to get it right, but he won't succeed until he does.

[CardiacCoug]

Is there ever a point you cut your losses and put Jake on the bench?

I think the disconnect with you guys that want Jake to start is that you truly believe he's a game or two from coming around. What if he doesn't?

It's the same psychology as when you get dealt 2 aces in poker -- it's damn hard to fold even when it's obvious that's what you need to do later in the hand.

I'm not saying it's time to give up on Jake, but I have no problem with Riley playing right now. It's easy for us to say that this season doesn't matter but Bronco and his staff have their jobs on the line -- it matters to them and it matters to the seniors on the team.

Bronco owes it to the team and the coaches to try to win every game and if he thinks Riley gives him the best chance to do that, that is a very understandable position.

[Donuthole]

Exactly. There are not a lot of options because Bronco has inserted another starter into the mix. I recently cited to the Denver broncos...how they continue to go with their QB despite the losses because they feel like the long term benefit it is there.

Not to throw a wrench in your analogy or anything, but Denver went to Tebow today, and, with the BYE coming up, it looks like he'll be their starter in two weeks.

Now, both the football teams I root for are starting left-handed, run-first QBs who struggle to throw a spiral.

[Shaka]

I wish we knew. But I do know that he is still really young, and live reps when the running game and oline aren't completely overmatched could do him a world of good. If doman called for spot passes and screens instead of deep outs that could really help as well. He was given way too much, and I put a lot of that on doman.

I'll give you a couple of ideas about the disconnect. Practice doesn't accurately reflect game conditions. He practices against a scout team who's job is to hastily approximate the opposing teams defense for that week. The scout team D isn't anywhere near as good as what he faces on Saturdays. He also wears a green jersey so getting nailed isn't an issue.

I have no idea what Riley's practice problems are all about.

Also consider the source of second hand info. This issue has polarized the fanbase. Could it be the info is coming from someone who more closely aligns themselves with the Heaps camp?

[Hsaru]

The offense Riley was asked to run in the 1st half put almost zero onus on qb play except for a handful of plays, he was asked to hand the ball off and set up screen passes and let your oline and TEs dominate an overmatched front for the most part. The few plays he was asked to make the defense pay for stacking the box he did well in the 1st half for the most part at hitting wide open guys(which Jake hasn't always done this year).

But I really find it hard to read much into what happened, Doman came out in a similar offense to what Utah ran against Montana St, I would've liked to see him building the offense a bit to be competitive with the better teams we play.

[Viking]

The offense Riley was asked to run in the 1st half put almost zero onus on qb play except for a handful of plays, he was asked to hand the ball off and set up screen passes and let your oline and TEs dominate an overmatched front for the most part. The few plays he was asked to make the defense pay for stacking the box he did well in the 1st half for the most part at hitting wide open guys(which Jake hasn't always done this year).

But I really find it hard to read much into what happened, Doman came out in a similar offense to what Utah ran against Montana St, I would've liked to see him building the offense a bit to be competitive with the better teams we play.

Huh? Riley consistently delivered 5-8 yd runs in the 1st half.

[Surfah]

Also consider the source of second hand info. This issue has polarized the fanbase. Could it be the info is coming from someone who more closely aligns themselves with the Heaps camp?

No.

[San Juan Sun]

I think that as of today, the essential Riley Vs Jake fact is this:

Riley has 2 wins and no losses
Jake has 1 win and 2 losses
KVN has 1 win

In my opinion, Al Davis was right: just win, baby. Until Riley loses, he should be the guy. (then KVN gets a shot, and then Jake again)

[Uncle Ted]

So tell me, where's the disconnect between him killing it in practice and going to pieces in the games? He's always killed it in practice.

It sounds to me that Heaps may be afraid to get hit. In a game he is not wearing the green jersey.

[Viking]

I think that as of today, the essential Riley Vs Jake fact is this:

Riley has 2 wins and no losses
Jake has 1 win and 2 losses
KVN has 1 win

In my opinion, Al Davis was right: just win, baby. Until Riley loses, he should be the guy. (then KVN gets a shot, and then Jake again)

Here's how mediocre Bronco is:

KVN not a starter.
Riley only barely a starter.

As I've said since he was hired (actually, a legendary BYU player said this, and I've adopted it): PLACEHOLDER

[Shaka]

It sounds to me that Heaps may be afraid to get hit. In a game he is not wearing the green jersey.

That's got to be a significant part of the issues. A lot of problems can germinate from the inability to stand tall in the pocket.

[Surfah]

I'm so tired of this line. Clearly you really didn't know what you had in Riley.

Prior to this game you constantly hear how Riley can't throw deep outs or the deep ball. The teams will stack the box and his ship will sink. Yesterday the box got stacked, Riley threw two deep balls one for touchdown and the other better than anything Jake has thrown this year even though it was slightly underthrown, and he rushed for 65 yards on nine attempts. In general Riley took what the defense gave, went through his progressions, and was successful in leading a team that respects him. Yes he threw a couple of picks and had a couple other bonehead moments but that's normal for a QB getting his first start.

On a further note we had balanced rushing AND passing games. BYU had it's most complete offensive game this season. All this happened against a team that beat a team that beat USU.

I'm not saying SJSU are world beaters or even good. I'm just wondering when you are going to give credit where it's due and at least try to enjoy a victory. Clearly you didn't have a clue what Nelson could do. It almost seems like any success by Riley is only going to cause you more pain. I think the fans owe it to Nelson to at least let him attempt to prove himself over the next game or two.

Heaps sucked and had to sit. He had the opportunity to prove himself and squandered it. Any bitching about him not getting time because of the schedule is lame. If he wanted that time he shouldn't have sucked to the point where a supposedly less talented QB had to come bail his ass out.

You may also want to face the possibility that Heaps is not the quarterback of the future. He can't throw a ball other than a medium range bullet, he makes pre-snap reads but very rarely goes through progressions and checks down. He's also a pansy in the pocket. He's also going to have a RM transfer named Taysom breathing down his neck. Right now Jake is getting a severely needed wake-up call. He needs to shut up, support his teammate who is clearly outperforming him, and work on his game in practice until he gets his stuff together and gets another shot.

Dude, why is this personal for you?

I have been very critical of Heaps. Go back and read my posts from the USU game. I was then and am still fine with his benching. He deserved to sit. My whole point is looking ahead. I am sorry that it offends you so much, but if Riley Nelson is the QB that will lead us in our inaugural season in the Big 12, we're in a world of hurt.

I appreciate what Riley brings. I really do. I wish Heaps had just one of his nuts. The kid wants to win and will sacrifice his body to do just that. But lets be honest. He's a mediocre passer. And that is generous. I don't know what impressed you about any of the deep balls he threw. His deepest throw was 40 yards of wounded duck to MJ. The fade to Hoffman for the TD was beautiful. But the ball Hoffman dropped earlier by Heaps was just as, if not more, impressive than that toss. Riley didn't prove anything against SJSU or show anything we didn't all ready know. He's a gamer. But he's reckless. He's a known quantity. I don't know what he has to prove or can prove in two more games like you suggest. He's an average, at best, D1 QB. Sorry, just being honest.

I also can't believe you're using the transitive property here to prop up one of the worst teams in college football (certainly the worst last year). They beat the team that beat USU? Really? Our wide receivers were open all night. That hasn't happened all season. And now that's supposed to be attributed to Nelson? Balanced run game? SJSU is giving up almost 200 yards a game on the ground.

I completely agree that Heaps may not be the guy and never live up to the hype. He may be Garret Gilbert. But we need more live, game reps to see. You've already conceded that Heaps is a practice all-star so what good is that going to do the kid when it's obvious that his issues occur when the green jersey comes off?

It's been said already, but we're two wins away from bowl eligibility. And with the remainder of our schedule Terrence Brown and Riley Nelson could swap positions and we'd get there. We're going to the Armed Forces Bowl where we will not play a BCS team. This season is over. I don't know how you guys can argue otherwise. I completely disagree with you and Lebowski over this point. This has nothing to do with the team not wanting to win or trying to win. Of course they will do that. But you guys that are intimating that Bronco's job could be in jeopardy this season are being, well, silly.

[Surfah]

Here's how mediocre Bronco is:

KVN not a starter.
Riley only barely a starter.

As I've said since he was hired (actually, a legendary BYU player said this, and I've adopted it): PLACEHOLDER

For who? Ty?