Doman vs. Anae's offensive plan

[TheAzzuri]

? It's a discussion board. We discuss things here.

Yes, I just thought his question/statement was benign and not directed at those wanting Anae out.

[SoCalCoug]

I find "analysis" like this particularly hilarious.

Oh, okay. You convinced me that I'm wrong, without even having to support it with anything specific. Thanks, flystripper, for setting me straight. I've now seen the error of my ways.

Sorry, but you may be right, but I guess I've missed out on what's so hilarious to you. I guess it's just your own private joke.

[jay santos]

I saw a great analysis by DarkCoug over on TBS last year where he broke down the BYU-Wyoming game play by play. Even though BYU won, it was despite the fact that the vast majority of the time, Wyoming was set up perfectly for the play that was run - it was the superior athleticism of the OL that often made the play successful despite the defense apparently knowing exactly what was coming.

And so you believe that no sportswriters or scouts EVER commented on how predictable the offense was?

Anae was great for BYU at a time they needed him. But I think anyone who thinks it was ONLY Anae's personality that led to his departure doesn't know shit.

Worst take of the day.

Two issues here.

1. When Heaps is throwing halfback screens for pick six, there's not much you can do.
2. The prevailing opinion is that the smashmouth ball that BYU went to through the middle and end of the season was dictated by Bronco with Reynolds and Doman as the brains behind the mechanics of it.

[Flystripper]

Oh, okay. You convinced me that I'm wrong, without even having to support it with anything specific. Thanks, flystripper, for setting me straight. I've now seen the error of my ways.

Sorry, but you may be right, but I guess I've missed out on what's so hilarious to you. I guess it's just your own private joke.

I find it funny when fans try and break down every play and try to tell us what should have been called versus what was called or even what shouldn't have been called versus what was called. Darkcoug may or may not be a smart guy, but I am guessing that Anae has forgotten more about football than he will ever know.

Look, Doman might be great. I am excited to see what he can bring, but fans that called for the head of Anae based on his supposed lack of play calling abilities are out of line in my opinion. It is just my opinion and I know you disagree with it, and that is ok.

Anae was extremely successful at BYU and sometimes fans don't appreciate what they have. Anae had his warts and given those warts, I am ok with him being replaced by a potential up and coming talent in Doman, but people show a tremendous lack of gratitude and respect for what Anae has brought to the table over the past 6 years when they point to play calling in a Wyoming game during a rebuilding season as a reason to fire the guy that brought the BYU offense out of the ashes.

[San Juan Sun]

Look, Doman might be great. I am excited to see what he can bring, but fans that called for the head of Anae based on his supposed lack of play calling abilities are out of line in my opinion. It is just my opinion and I know you disagree with it, and that is ok.

Anae was extremely successful at BYU and sometimes fans don't appreciate what they have. Anae had his warts and given those warts, I am ok with him being replaced by a potential up and coming talent in Doman, but people show a tremendous lack of gratitude and respect for what Anae has brought to the table over the past 6 years when they point to play calling in a Wyoming game during a rebuilding season as a reason to fire the guy that brought the BYU offense out of the ashes.

That's an epic beat down you just gave tha straw man. Good work.

[Jarid in Cedar]

[oxcoug]

Doman might be fine. The proof will be in the pudding so to speak. We will have to wait and see.

Anae was a fantastic OC and people that complained about his predictability don't know shit. All you have to do is look that Anae's results. If predictability gives you consistent results in the top 20 of all NCAA offenses then please give me more predictability.

I tend to believe Anae was replaced due to personality conflict and long term organizational fit and not due to the lack of productivity of his offense.

'Stripper, I generally respect you're opinion but we're going to disagree on this one, and you can't really skip off by saying that the people who disagree with you "don't know shit" since that's not actually an argument.

Some of the players most revered in BYU's recent offensive history think that playing in Anae's system and with his playcalling and gameplanning is not much different than playing high level high school ball, and I have pretty direct sources on two of them. I'm gonna lean out on a limb and say they probably know at least as much as you do. Maybe even more.

He never showed the capacity to innovate and the capacity to innovate is what brought BYU out of obscurity. Schools like Ohio State and Oklahoma can focus on execution uber alles because they have talent to win one to one at almost every position. Schools like BYU have to innovate.

Here's a quote from Chris Peterson that perfectly highlights what BSU has had for the past decade that BYU has lacked:

"After meeting a few times, I had an epiphany. Bam! I started realizing game-plan wise, there wasn't enough creativity. I started looking at things a different way. We need structure, we need order, we need schedules and we need our system taught a certain way. But within that there needs to be a creativity to keep growing, to keep the energy and the enthusiasm. What new wrinkles do we need to make us better? I think that's one of the reasons we're not afraid to take chances and do different things. We have to do that to be who we are."

There's more to it than that. Anae was a very good OC for 90% of the games BYU had to play. But he wasn't the OC to take BYU to the next level.

[SoCalCoug]

I find it funny when fans try and break down every play and try to tell us what should have been called versus what was called or even what shouldn't have been called versus what was called. Darkcoug may or may not be a smart guy, but I am guessing that Anae has forgotten more about football than he will ever know.

Look, Doman might be great. I am excited to see what he can bring, but fans that called for the head of Anae based on his supposed lack of play calling abilities are out of line in my opinion. It is just my opinion and I know you disagree with it, and that is ok.

Anae was extremely successful at BYU and sometimes fans don't appreciate what they have. Anae had his warts and given those warts, I am ok with him being replaced by a potential up and coming talent in Doman, but people show a tremendous lack of gratitude and respect for what Anae has brought to the table over the past 6 years when they point to play calling in a Wyoming game during a rebuilding season as a reason to fire the guy that brought the BYU offense out of the ashes.

You know, I get it that you may have some level of football expertise that nobody else around here has. I get that it may not even be important to actually look at the breakdown I was talking about before you shoot it down as "funny". And I personally LOVE the argument that Anae has forgotten more football than any of us have ever known. That's a true winner there.

At least make an effort to try to comprehend what people you disagree with are trying to say. Maybe it's just one of my pet peeves, but I see it over and over where we're in a discussion and someone brings up a specific example of something that illustrates their point, and suddenly it becomes, "they point to play calling in a Wyoming game during a rebuilding season as a reason to fire the guy. . . ." So you don't want to give any credence to what I'm trying to illustrate. Fine. I guess you have that right.

But you're shooting me down for an opinion I don't really have. I'm not saying Anae lacks play calling abilities. Of course he knows what he's doing. He's been doing it for six years.

But just because someone's had some degree of success and some ability -even above average ability- does that mean there are not tendencies and weaknesses? Just because he's been very good, does that mean he can take BYU's offense to the next level?

I've been satisfied with BYU's offenses over the last six years for the most part. But I'm not the only one who has questioned the playcalling at times, and I'm not the only one who has observed the offense to be unsatisfyingly predictable.

By the way, my problem with Anae isn't his playcalling abilities (although I admit that there have been multiple occasions when I questioned what he was doing with a particular call - many of those have been hashed over on multiple occasions).

My problem has been that he's too conservative and predictable to get BYU over the hump to the next level.

I think last season more than anything highlighted the shortcomings of his offensive philosophy that were overshadowed by some great individual play in prior years.

Bottom line is, a lot of fans were calling for Anae to be let go. A lot were saying he shouldn't be let go. He ended up being let go.

[KillerDog]

I like the theory that the BYU faithful will be happy with a change to more aggressive play calling but I believe they will not be. Group memory is faulty. In this case, I believe BYU fans, as a group, don't remember the risks associated with running a big play oriented offense. When they have those risks forced on them, they will be unhappy and may stupidly boo their own team. I think BYU and Doman may have a long and exciting love affair but I doubt it. Too many people have forgotten the interceptions, fumbles, sacks etc. that come from the type of offense Brandon wants to run. Anae did a very good job of limiting those things and sustaining drives. 3 and outs and ints will get very old for the Cougar faithful (as they once did) and they'll (we'll) start whining for a return to the more conservative controlled passing game.

Remember, we ran a complex and unpredictable offense under Crowton. One of the drawback of it was we were likely to give the D horrible field position. Fans hated that.

[Flystripper]

'Stripper, I generally respect you're opinion but we're going to disagree on this one, and you can't really skip off by saying that the people who disagree with you "don't know shit" since that's not actually an argument.

"Don't know shit" might be a bit strong , but I stand by the notion that criticizing the guy that resurrected the post-Crowton BYU offense based on the play calling that produced multiple top 25 results is not the wisest approach.

Some of the players most revered in BYU's recent offensive history think that playing in Anae's system and with his playcalling and gameplanning is not much different than playing high level high school ball, and I have pretty direct sources on two of them. I'm gonna lean out on a limb and say they probably know at least as much as you do. Maybe even more.

Really? Playing in Anae's system that produced multiple top 25 offenses is like playing in high school? Those are same amazing high school teams!

He never showed the capacity to innovate and the capacity to innovate is what brought BYU out of obscurity. Schools like Ohio State and Oklahoma can focus on execution uber alles because they have talent to win one to one at almost every position. Schools like BYU have to innovate.

I don't care about innovation. I care about results.

Here's a quote from Chris Peterson that perfectly highlights what BSU has had for the past decade that BYU has lacked:

"After meeting a few times, I had an epiphany. Bam! I started realizing game-plan wise, there wasn't enough creativity. I started looking at things a different way. We need structure, we need order, we need schedules and we need our system taught a certain way. But within that there needs to be a creativity to keep growing, to keep the energy and the enthusiasm. What new wrinkles do we need to make us better? I think that's one of the reasons we're not afraid to take chances and do different things. We have to do that to be who we are."

That sounds nice. Chris Petersen is a great coach and BSU is a great program. BSU has been a fantastic program for many reasons. I will grant you that emulating what BSU is doing is not a bad thing. I am not sure the Doman is trying to be a BSU copycat though.

There's more to it than that. Anae was a very good OC for 90% of the games BYU had to play. But he wasn't the OC to take BYU to the next level.

Maybe, maybe not. We will never know for sure. I am excited to see what Doman can do.

[SoCalCoug]

I like the theory that the BYU faithful will be happy with a change to more aggressive play calling but I believe they will not be. Group memory is faulty. In this case, I believe BYU fans, as a group, don't remember the risks associated with running a big play oriented offense. When they have those risks forced on them, they will be unhappy and may stupidly boo their own team. I think BYU and Doman may have a long and exciting love affair but I doubt it. Too many people have forgotten the interceptions, fumbles, sacks etc. that come from the type of offense Brandon wants to run. Anae did a very good job of limiting those things and sustaining drives. 3 and outs and ints will get very old for the Cougar faithful (as they once did) and they'll (we'll) start whining for a return to the more conservative controlled passing game.

Remember, we ran a complex and unpredictable offense under Crowton. One of the drawback of it was we were likely to give the D horrible field position. Fans hated that.

I agree that most fans are vastly uninformed about the real nuances of high-level team football (I believe I fall in that category). But isn't there any middle ground? Or is Anae as good as BYU can hope to expect?

Yes, Doman is untested and unknown as an OC. But does that mean we shouldn't be optimistic? By all accounts, he has a great football mind and is a budding star as a coach.

Is it really an either/or - a conservative, predictable, but generally successful but not innovative offense that is "good enough" vs. an unpredictable, but turnover-prone offense that's going to result in three-and-outs more than sustained drives? Is there not some middle ground? Do Boise State fans constantly complain about their OC? Nevada fans? Oregon fans? Oklahoma fans?

Do we even know exactly what type of offense Doman wants to run? Could it be that your comparison to Crowton isn't appropriate because he isn't going to run Crowton's offense? I just can't believe it's so black and white - it's either a boring, conservative offense or a wild, out-of-control, turnover prone offense.

[jay santos]

My hope (and my guess) for the new BYU offense is that it will be basically the exact same as it ever was.

Doman guys will watch the same philosophy and strategy and formations and patterns and run to pass ratio that we ever had and say "wow isn't that great??!!" because Heaps is better than he was the first 10 games of last season and he has an arm that can stretch defenses that Hall never had. And then when our next QB comes around they'll bitch like crazy that he sucks. I'm guessing by then the criticism will be he's too conservative. Good OC's go conservative when they don't have a great QB.

[CJF]

Doman might be fine. The proof will be in the pudding so to speak. We will have to wait and see.

Anae was a fantastic OC and people that complained about his predictability don't know shit. All you have to do is look that Anae's results. If predictability gives you consistent results in the top 20 of all NCAA offenses then please give me more predictability.

I tend to believe Anae was replaced due to personality conflict and long term organizational fit and not due to the lack of productivity of his offense.

I agree.

[oxcoug]

Remember, we ran a complex and unpredictable offense under Crowton. One of the drawback of it was we were likely to give the D horrible field position. Fans hated that.

There's a big distance between the "complex and unpredictable" of a Crowton and the "complex and unpredictable" of a Chris Peterson.

Crowton is a fundamentally disorganized human being. It's a trait that's caught up with him everywhere he's gone. You want to be unpredictable to your opponent - not to your own players and coaching staff, which is when unpredictability becomes unreliability.

It's also a false choice between Crowton-style chaos and Anae-style strategic brainlock. There are plenty of reasonable points in between the two and I'm optimistic that Doman will settle around one.

[oxcoug]

I agree.

I thought it was pretty widely known/established that Anae's personality problems - his inability to connect with his players and ongoing conflicts with a couple of key coaches who shall not be named being among them - were key in the parting of ways.

But it certainly wasn't the only factor.