Two QB experiment

[jay santos]

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=6096683

"Bronco should NEVER have allowed the 2 headed QB to happen... but whoever was selling him on the idea gets most of the blame. Bronco is NOT an offensive coach, he has to trust his coaches. Now the question then becomes was it Anae or Doman or both of them pushing the 2 headed QB monster.

Bronco needed to tell them "we will not play 2 QBs, if they are dead even, Heaps gets the start, he is younger", and if Anae had half a brain, he'd have LOVED having Nelson as a wildcat QB. He could have been much better than the "Asiata package", because he could actually throw a nice mid range pass, yet still get yards with his legs"

Does anyone here believe this? If so, why?

If anything, I think it has proven out that Heaps is not ready to be a full time QB and having Nelson there to help take the pressure off was near genius in terms of implementing strategy to break a new QB in gently.

The only thing that went wrong, IMHO, was Nelson's injury.

Heaps full time, I think we go 4-8.

With a healthy Nelson and going 50-50 with them, I think we finish 7-5.

As for preparing for next year, I think with Heaps going 50-50 vs going full time, he is absolutely no further behind in his progression as a QB.

[Jacob]

I still believe it. Heaps as the starter from day 1 and Nelson used in wildcat or option packages. Heaps was bad against TCU, but based on all the other games, I still hold that Heaps is not the biggest culprit for our offensive woes. And I don't have any reason to think that Nelson would have been better...again based on what we saw out of Nelson.

[jay santos]

I still believe it. Heaps as the starter from day 1 and Nelson used in wildcat or option packages. Heaps was bad against TCU, but based on all the other games, I still hold that Heaps is not the biggest culprit for our offensive woes. And I don't have any reason to think that Nelson would have been better...again based on what we saw out of Nelson.

Almost everyone is agreement that the best approach right now is to go smash mouth and punt the ball and let our D get it back for us if we have to. Basically Baltimore Ravens football. Couldn't Nelson do just as good or better at that?

[DapperDan]

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=6096683

"Bronco should NEVER have allowed the 2 headed QB to happen... but whoever was selling him on the idea gets most of the blame. Bronco is NOT an offensive coach, he has to trust his coaches. Now the question then becomes was it Anae or Doman or both of them pushing the 2 headed QB monster.

Bronco needed to tell them "we will not play 2 QBs, if they are dead even, Heaps gets the start, he is younger", and if Anae had half a brain, he'd have LOVED having Nelson as a wildcat QB. He could have been much better than the "Asiata package", because he could actually throw a nice mid range pass, yet still get yards with his legs"

Does anyone here believe this? If so, why?

If anything, I think it has proven out that Heaps is not ready to be a full time QB and having Nelson there to help take the pressure off was near genius in terms of implementing strategy to break a new QB in gently.

The only thing that went wrong, IMHO, was Nelson's injury.

Heaps full time, I think we go 4-8.

With a healthy Nelson and going 50-50 with them, I think we finish 7-5.

As for preparing for next year, I think with Heaps going 50-50 vs going full time, he is absolutely no further behind in his progression as a QB.

Nelson v Air Force is too fresh in my mind to think we do any better with him starting. I don't see any game that we win with him starting instead of Heaps.

Either way the 50-50 split was never going to continue as Heaps getting yanked v AF showed. Games might start that way, but they would not likely end that way.

I do think having Nelson as a short yardage/red zone QB would have been brilliant. I really wish we had him now for that.

[Jacob]

Almost everyone is agreement that the best approach right now is to go smash mouth and punt the ball and let our D get it back for us if we have to. Basically Baltimore Ravens football. Couldn't Nelson do just as good or better at that?

That's seems extreme. I don't know what you mean by "almost everyone." You are the first one I've heard express this view. And hoping for the D to get us the ball back seems like a poor strategy considering the number of turnovers they've created for us so far.

I did hear Bronco say that we are going to see a lot of running and play action and drop back passes. I think that's a good idea and I like Heaps in the drop back passes better than Nelson. So, no, I don't think Nelson would do just as good. But it really doesn't matter because, as most expected, Nelson got injured and couldn't play a full season. So I don't get the point of arguing that Nelson should have gotten a few more passing attempts through the first 2.5 games.

[Indy Coug]

Any time you find yourself agreeing with Y'zGuy, you need to quickly reconsider your position. That is a rule of thumb you can put large sums of money on.

[CJF]

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=6096683

"Bronco should NEVER have allowed the 2 headed QB to happen... but whoever was selling him on the idea gets most of the blame. Bronco is NOT an offensive coach, he has to trust his coaches. Now the question then becomes was it Anae or Doman or both of them pushing the 2 headed QB monster.

Bronco needed to tell them "we will not play 2 QBs, if they are dead even, Heaps gets the start, he is younger", and if Anae had half a brain, he'd have LOVED having Nelson as a wildcat QB. He could have been much better than the "Asiata package", because he could actually throw a nice mid range pass, yet still get yards with his legs"

Does anyone here believe this? If so, why?

If anything, I think it has proven out that Heaps is not ready to be a full time QB and having Nelson there to help take the pressure off was near genius in terms of implementing strategy to break a new QB in gently.

The only thing that went wrong, IMHO, was Nelson's injury.

Heaps full time, I think we go 4-8.
With a healthy Nelson and going 50-50 with them, I think we finish 7-5.

As for preparing for next year, I think with Heaps going 50-50 vs going full time, he is absolutely no further behind in his progression as a QB.

Seems like just a few days ago you argued with me that BYU would win the next four in a row. Is BYU switching QB's for the next four games?

[wally]

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=6096683

"Bronco should NEVER have allowed the 2 headed QB to happen... but whoever was selling him on the idea gets most of the blame. Bronco is NOT an offensive coach, he has to trust his coaches. Now the question then becomes was it Anae or Doman or both of them pushing the 2 headed QB monster.

Bronco needed to tell them "we will not play 2 QBs, if they are dead even, Heaps gets the start, he is younger", and if Anae had half a brain, he'd have LOVED having Nelson as a wildcat QB. He could have been much better than the "Asiata package", because he could actually throw a nice mid range pass, yet still get yards with his legs"

Does anyone here believe this? If so, why?

If anything, I think it has proven out that Heaps is not ready to be a full time QB and having Nelson there to help take the pressure off was near genius in terms of implementing strategy to break a new QB in gently.

The only thing that went wrong, IMHO, was Nelson's injury.

Heaps full time, I think we go 4-8.

With a healthy Nelson and going 50-50 with them, I think we finish 7-5.

As for preparing for next year, I think with Heaps going 50-50 vs going full time, he is absolutely no further behind in his progression as a QB.

You are wrong. It was not near genius, it was SUPER-GENIUS.

In fact, I think that next year, with a healthy Riley Nelson, BYU should go back to the 50/50 time split at QB. Heaps will probably need it because his confidence will have been so shaken by the end of this season. It would be unfair to put so much pressure on a young sophomore.

[Blueintheface]

You are wrong. It was not near genius, it was SUPER-GENIUS.

In fact, I think that next year, with a healthy Riley Nelson, BYU should go back to the 50/50 time split at QB. Heaps will probably need it because his confidence will have been so shaken by the end of this season. It would be unfair to put so much pressure on a young sophomore.

Don't take the reigns off until late Oct 2013. Ease him into it. SUPER!

[jay santos]

That's seems extreme. I don't know what you mean by "almost everyone." You are the first one I've heard express this view. And hoping for the D to get us the ball back seems like a poor strategy considering the number of turnovers they've created for us so far.

The coaches are saying it. Watch Saturday and see what we do.

[jay santos]

Seems like just a few days ago you argued with me that BYU would win the next four in a row. Is BYU switching QB's for the next four games?

I think you misunderstood me. I just reread the thread. You said "I think BYU drops at least one and maybe two of the next four." I said "I think it's possible we slip up, but we should be favored in all four games."

Then I said my expectation was to win exactly 3.5 out of the last 4, which I later recanted and said 3.1 out of 4.

Exclusive Jake, I think we lose Washington and one of the next four for record of 5-7. With Nelson/Heaps we obviously get the Washington game and we win 4 out of Nevada, USU, and the next four.

edit: I screwed my math up. K, subtract Washington and add three more wins and we get to 4-8. With Nelson I'm expecting 5 out of Nevada, USU, and the next four. Maybe that's aggressive.

[CJF]

I think you misunderstood me. I just reread the thread. You said "I think BYU drops at least one and maybe two of the next four." I said "I think it's possible we slip up, but we should be favored in all four games."

Then I said my expectation was to win exactly 3.5 out of the last 4, which I later recanted and said 3.1 out of 4.

Exclusive Jake, I think we lose Washington and one of the next four for record of 5-7. With Nelson/Heaps we obviously get the Washington game and we win 4 out of Nevada, USU, and the next four.

edit: I screwed my math up. K, subtract Washington and add three more wins and we get to 4-8. With Nelson I'm expecting 5 out of Nevada, USU, and the next four. Maybe that's aggressive.

I'm just giving you a hard time.

I will say that if Heaps had been given the reigns from the beginning and Nelson coming as a wildcat QB, Nelson would not have been effective running, but probably would have been better throwing. My gut feeling is with Heaps, teams are going to have their defenses ready to stop the run first, second, and probably third. Nelson wouldn't have been much of a change of pace QB. That said, I think he would have been much more effective throwing out of the wildcat and might have even been able to pry the job away from a healthy Heaps as the year progressed.

[MarkGrace]

Nelson v Air Force is too fresh in my mind to think we do any better with him starting. I don't see any game that we win with him starting instead of Heaps.

And Florida State. Nelson was effective against UW, but I think as most suspected, once other teams saw him, he was on a fast decline into ineffectiveness other than in a very limited role.

I don't think the results change much, if at all, by switching QB's. I do think Nelson helped win us the UW game -- a win we otherwise might not have got -- and that's pretty much it. That said, I wish we would have gone with Heaps after spring camp last year.

[Surfah]

And Florida State. Nelson was effective against UW, but I think as most suspected, once other teams saw him, he was on a fast decline into ineffectiveness other than in a very limited role.

I don't think the results change much, if at all, by switching QB's. I do think Nelson helped win us the UW game -- a win we otherwise might not have got -- and that's pretty much it. That said, I wish we would have gone with Heaps after spring camp last year.

I agree with this.

The two QB system was a debacle and not the right choice as it was implemented. I would have been and still would be now in favor of bringing Nelson in short yardage, red zone type situations. Heaps should have been taking all of the 1st team reps all summer aside from the wildcat formations and plays that Nelson would run. But alternating series was a horrible decision that is pretty indefensible I would have preferred Nelson being the starter and Heaps getting reps in garbage time over what we had.

[Non Sequitur]

I agree it has been a mess, but I don't think it matters a lot in the end. It's not like our losses have been close at all. And I don't think Heaps would be much better today even if he had taken all the snaps in the fall. We're half-way through the season and he still has developed at all. He's no better today than he was when he took his first snap. I'm pretty sure if Bronco had this to do over again, he would not have implemented a 2 QB system, and I'm also sure that we will never see a true freshman QB again while Bronco is the coach.