Chambers Done?

[Jarid in Cedar]

This is a year to forget for BYU football. The bus is sitting on blocks on the side of the road at this point.

[hyrum]

While it's a disappointment, it isn't like he has provided much if true. You never like seeing kids leave (especially AA at the Y) but O'Neill has been a bit of a disappointment in my eyes on the field.

He just became the leading kick returner in BYU history, even with the games he missed. True he was not catching any passes, but how many were thrown his way?

What is that Japanese saying about the nail sticking up getting pounded down?

[YOhio]

He just became the leading kick returner in BYU history, even with the games he missed. True he was not catching any passes, but how many were thrown his way?

What is that Japanese saying about the nail sticking up getting pounded down?

You should ask Jeff Lebowski, nikuman, happyone, Tim or myboynoah about Japanese sayings. They all have significant experience in Japan and would probably be able to answer your Japanese idiom questions better than Sizzle.

[fusnik]

As mediocre as OC has been, his backup is 10 times worse.

OC would have been light years better playing with AC as opposed to McBaby.

[Jeff Lebowski]

He just became the leading kick returner in BYU history, even with the games he missed. True he was not catching any passes, but how many were thrown his way?

What is that Japanese saying about the nail sticking up getting pounded down?

hyrum's back?

Well, there goes my theory about SloanHater.

[shoganai]

I actually believe that the day will come when there are enough black LDS members (and athletes) that these cultural issues won't be a real issue at BYU anymore.

In the meantime, it's very sad to see yet another one wash out. I have the utmost respect for people like Margin Hooks and Mike Reed - regardless of what anecdotes they might have left behind.

All that being said, I am completely assured that Bronco and his staff did everything possible to avoid this, and have given Chambers every benefit of the doubt that could possibly be given.

[smokymountainrain]

I actually believe that the day will come when there are enough black LDS members (and athletes) that these cultural issues won't be a real issue at BYU anymore.

IMO, this is much less a cultural issue and more of a "I'm not getting the damn ball" issue. Chambers sees himself as a playmaker - whether it's true or not - and for Heaps/Bronco/Anae to not even look his way for 60 minutes is simply too much for him to tolerate.

[Sizzle]

He just became the leading kick returner in BYU history, even with the games he missed. True he was not catching any passes, but how many were thrown his way?

I can think of two dropped TDs in the first few games of the season that bounced off of his hands. And I would fully expect him to be the all-time leader in kick return yards because he is the only returner in BYU history to never take a knee in the end zone. Sometimes it worked in his favor and sometimes it didn't.

[Goatnapper'96]

Margin Hooks made it all four years and it took him about a month after his last game to start trashing on Provo and the suffocating culture.

I never heard that, I met him right before the TCU game in Provo last year and he seemed to be enjoying himself and was wearing BYU gear. But at that point we all thought we had a chance and ESPN gameday was in town. By halftime he might have hated BYU and Provo again.

I think the fundamental issue is a comfort issue and a numbers game. I think the suffocating atmosphere is one thing but it seems to me BYU loses a higher percentage of black football players than they did in the 80's. I think part of that is because the football team had more and the kids did not feel so isolated. I think the isolation magnifies their discomfort. It is a natural desire to push back when you feel alone. I actually think the greater BYU culture is better than it was in the 80's. I think there are more black members of the LDS Church everywhere. That is not to say BYU is a multi-cultural bastion of diversity, but there are fewer students who think a black person was less valiant in the pre-existence. The basketball team is recruiting more black kids, both LDS and not LDS, than ever before. There are still obvious washouts, but quite a few success stories as well.

IMO, it is harder for the kids coming straight from high school. Most of these kids come from real religious and conservative homes but that is their parents. College is a time where we establish our own identity and rebel so to speak. I don't mean rebel like "Dazed and Confused," but rather really evaluate if the way our parents raised us is what we believe and want to be. It seems that many of the kids like Oneil or Lloyd do ok for a year but after being away from home for a while they are starting to cut the apronstrings. The issues/problems with coaches and BYU admin start to mount and then it hits a tipping point. Perhaps the JC kids are a better fit. They have been away from home already and already have gone through that stage and have a better idea of who or what they want to be. They are coming to BYU with their eyes a little more wide open. Also if they stay out of trouble for one year then the issue buildup doesn't hit a tipping point until after their elgibility is used up.

I hope OC sticks around. But I didn't get the feeling from his comments after his first suspension that he really agreed with what was going on.

[shoganai]

IMO, this is much less a cultural issue and more of a "I'm not getting the damn ball" issue. Chambers sees himself as a playmaker - whether it's true or not - and for Heaps/Bronco/Anae to not even look his way for 60 minutes is simply too much for him to tolerate.

I think you're actually right that, in Chambers' mind, this is the bigger issue.

However, I also think that it is purely perception, and that Chambers isn't doing any better at getting open than any other receiver that isn't getting thrown to. And, frankly, his work ethic sucks.

[Indy Coug]

I can think of two dropped TDs in the first few games of the season that bounced off of his hands. And I would fully expect him to be the all-time leader in kick return yards because he is the only returner in BYU history to never take a knee in the end zone. Sometimes it worked in his favor and sometimes it didn't.

His KO yardage "record" is purely a function of the NCAA moving the kickoff back to the 30 yard line and BYU having a dearth of quality alternatives. OC was an average KO returner.

21.1 yards per return in 2010

http://www.byucougars.com/uploads/stats/football/stats.pdf

34th nationally in 2009

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&rpt=IA_playerkickret&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

72nd in 2008

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2008&rpt=IA_playerkickret&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

[byu71]

His KO yardage "record" is purely a function of the NCAA moving the kickoff back to the 30 yard line and BYU having a dearth of quality alternatives. OC was an average KO returner.

21.1 yards per return in 2010

http://www.byucougars.com/uploads/stats/football/stats.pdf

34th nationally in 2009

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&rpt=IA_playerkickret&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

72nd in 2008

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.js...&div=IA&dest=O

Good catch. Almost as good as Oxcoug's catch of your offensive output for Anae in 2006-2009, when he showed how lousy the teams were we had played against during that period.

You can make numbers say anything you want, can't you.

[TheBYUGuy]

SeattleUte just texted me and wanted me to post that BYU's offense is even more vanilla now than it was against TCU, but at least Quesadilla is still around.

[Indy Coug]

Good catch. Almost as good as Oxcoug's catch of your offensive output for Anae in 2006-2009, when he showed how lousy the teams were we had played against during that period.

You can make numbers say anything you want, can't you.

So? There are all sorts of teams that play lousy schedules that didn't have anywhere near the same offensive output as BYU over that span of time.

[woot]

I'd be interested to know why exactly he's been kicked off the team. Are we assuming he's just been in the coaches' ears about lack of opportunities and they got sick of hearing it?

I'm not sad to see him go, as I never liked him at KR and he hasn't done anything this year as a WR. Still, it's never good when we lose a player.

As I hear discussion of BYU failing to integrate black athletes into the culture in Provo, are we really talking about non-LDS athletes? Surely there are also some white non-LDS football players? Even as a white Mormon (at the time), I found the BYU culture somewhat suffocating and know that many other still-devout people did too, so no doubt it would be difficult to be non-LDS there, but I'd hope that skin color wouldn't necessarily exacerbate this problem, given the relative diversity of the team and the huge built-in social group that comes with being on the football team.

Perhaps this is wishful thinking.