Where did Bronco/Anae/Doman go wrong?

[Goatnapper'96]

I don't understand why QB is the only position in any sport that you can't have a substitute or else you're going to hurt the guy's confidence or not allow him to get into a rhythm. Are QB's that big of wusses? Why can't a two QB system work?

Two qb systems rarely work. I think for many reasons. For BYU, I offer it as my opinion that this system is not optimal because it is a true 2 qb system where BYU runs different plays and tweaks when the qb is Riley. This takes away from execution as the players are executing two different systems. For this to be efffective, BYU needs players to make plays with athleticism. That is not exactly BYU's bread and butter.

I think your QB is your teams leader. It is just the way it is. I think at BYU with its history and pass happy offense it is even more pronounced. I think it hurts leadership to not have one quarterback. I think it leads to team partitions and a whole lot of things that are not good- especially when things are going bad like last saturday.

I am not sure if I think Coach K-Dog's brilliant, albeit most manly, recommendations would have done shit and quite possibly would have resulted in a worse situation. I think the eventual starter is Heaps. However, I tend to agree with you what the results would have been if Heaps were named the starter after spring. I also think that if Nelson is the starter all year long BYU loses more games in Oct and Nov that it will lose with Heaps and I also don't think BYU is as good the next few years when I think there is some serious potential. I think Mendenhall had lots of choices, but I don't believe any of them were very good ones to start the year. I think he made as good a choice as could be made and very well might be the one that maximizes both short term and long term results.

Regardless, I am still vexed at the shitty defensive performance. Other than Thomas, I think BYU has physically talented players at every position. That was unnacceptable, IMO.

[MarkGrace]

I've been thinking about this QB fiasco today. Nelson seems to understand the offense but lacks the abilityto make necessary plays in the offense and is constantly looking over his shoulder because he knows he lacks the ability to make the plays.

Heaps has the ability to make plays. He has a nice arm and can even throw the 20 yard out that is the key to beating a fast defense with our offense. What he lacks is the understanding of the offense. His audibles often result in a loss and he isn't taking advantage of the defense. He is also looking over his shoulder because he knows he doesn't know the offense well enough.

The question is, how did we end up with two QBs who can't get it done? I think this all started when Riley Nelson came on campus. Bronco/Anae/Doman knew they needed a QB for 2010. They knew Hall and Gaskins would be gone. The groomed Nelson and prepared him to understand the offense. They also knew his shortcomings. In other words, they were in a position to judge where he was prior to spring practice because he had been in the program for a year. Despite this, when Heaps came on campus, they continued to evaluate Nelson. I think they were hoping he would magically grow 4 inches and replace his noodle of a left arm with a howitzer. They could have been helping Heaps and having Nelson help Heaps to get the offense down but instead they were frozen in indecision by the prospect of starting a true freshman or a junior who should be playing safety.

In spring practice, Heaps should have had starter reps once they knew he had the skill set. Bronco/Anae/Doman could have and should have prepared his mind. You can teach the offense but you can't teach talent. If they had given Heaps they number of reps in Spring practice that Hall got prior to his first year playing, we would not be in this mess.

Even if they didn't give Heaps big reps in Spring, they should have nutted up and picked a QB, preferably the one that has the skill set we need. Instead they were pussies and said both QBs are still neck and neck. This fiasco continued into the fall and into the first two games. The result, we have two QBs with major flaws, an offensive line that can't settle into their positions, receivers who are frustrated, and an offense that can't develop. We also have special teams and defense that are pressing, trying to do too much, and making mistakes as a result.

I posted previously that Bronco is a pussy. I understated the problem. In this area, Bronco, Anae, and Doman all showed their pussy natures. Someone needed to be chosen but no one wanted to do the dirty work and make a choice. As a result, a choice was made for Bronco/Anae/Doman and the choice is not pretty.

Good comments, K-Dog, and I definitely think they should have picked Jake after the spring. He clearly performed better (despite the fact that even back then they were selling us this "they're even" crap), was deserving the moment he showed he was better, and that would have given us months to get the team on the same page and backing him up as their QB.

I understand why they held off, but I just don't buy into that line of thinking. I know they didn't want him to feel entitled, I know they felt like he hadn't paid his dues and that might irk the upperclassmen, I get all of that. And I think they felt he wasn't in the position to command the respect of the team and be a leader, and you need that at quarterback. On the other hand, you have Riley Nelson, who seems to have that mentality of the kind of kid you want to go to war with. He tough, determined, gritty, all of that.

But here's where I think the coaches whiffed on their leadership evaluation: in sports, not only do you have to have those innate leadership qualities, but you also have to be the best on the field to get the other guys to buy into you; if not, you're just Rudy. (Ok, maybe not always, but more often than not it plays out this way -- the very best players tend to be the leaders other players respect most)

I keep have Jazz flashbacks with this whole thing, but it again reminds me of another scenario the Jazz were staring down when Boozer and Deron were young. Raja Bell was one of the veterans on the team and really tried to assert himself as a leader. In many ways he was Riley. Hard-nosed, paid his dues, the coaches loved him, etc. The problem was, the other guys he was trying to "lead" (like Deron, AK and Booz) were just flat out better than him and so he didn't have their respect. He would say something to them, and they'd blow him off. And I'm sure we've all been there before. I can remember being an underclassmen in HS and having some older player tell me something and thinking, "kiss my ass, you suck and I'm better than you are anyway." It creates a sort of resentment among the younger, more talented players, and the older, more experienced players.

So that brings us to where we are now. I think a lot of players are having a similar reaction to Riley, because he's just not as good as the other kid, or the he's not as good as the kid he's trying to lead. In theory he has those qualities of a leader that you want, but he doesn't have the ability to back it up. The players around him don't respect his talent level as a QB.

[FMCoug]

So here is an interesting question. With Heaps as a clear cut starter after Spring, running a watered down offense, are the results different?

[Art Vandelay]

So here is an interesting question. With Heaps as a clear cut starter after Spring, running a watered down offense, are the results different?

I think BYU would be 0-2 with little to no difference in the score of the AFA game.

[Green Monstah]

I don't know where we went wrong, but my appreciation for Max Hall is skyrocketing right now.

[Indy Coug]

I don't know where we went wrong, but my appreciation for Max Hall is skyrocketing right now.

This was such a predictable sentiment.

[YOUTUBE]i28UEoLXVFQ[/YOUTUBE]

[Indy Coug]

I think BYU would be 0-2 with little to no difference in the score of the AFA game.

[creekster]

I thihk calling Bronco a 'pussy' is offensive on many levels to many people and rather ridiculous. But, if it makes you feel better . . .


While the 2 QB system may not seem to be working out, neither Heaps nor Nelson had anything to do with the steam rolling option train that flattened our defense. I am not a fan of the 2 QB approach for many of the reasons set out in this thread. Even so, after two games it is too early to tell if the coaches have handled it poorly or not. FMcoug's and other's point is well taken, BYU's record would not likely be better with different handling. Without knowing what is going on inside the team (which the coaches do know) it is far too early to say that the approach is, without qualification, the wrong one.

[il Padrino Ute]

who says they have gone wrong? byu is 1-1 and AF is a bowl team that will probably win 9 games this year. They lost on the road to a 9-10 win team. Keep up the good work, guys!

Fixed that for you.

[Indy Coug]

While the 2 QB system may not seem to be working out, neither Heaps nor Nelson had anything to do with the steam rolling option train that flattened our defense.

Silly monkey, even when the offense scores 56 points and the defense gives up 58 points, it's the offense's fault for the loss.

[Blueintheface]

I don't know where we went wrong, but my appreciation for Max Hall is skyrocketing right now.

The Cardinals are a tweaked-knee away from having him as their starter.

The kid has the "it".

[Indy Coug]

The Cardinals are a tweaked-knee away from having him as their starter.

The kid has the "it".

That just shows you how close the Cardinals are back to being in a stretch of 50 years between playoff victories.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

The biggest mistake was allowing the defense to be so utterly unprepared against AF. Offensively, there is nothing but sweet time that will fix the issues. Football is the ultimate sum of the parts sport. There is more than just the Heaps versus Riley debate that led to this decision, IMO.

I do think that the splitting of reps hurts the execution, but I don't think what they are doing is stupid. I believe rewarding hard work and being stubborn, especially if one is smart about the game, are good attributes in a head coach. In this way he is the anti-Crowton.

As a coach, Mendenhall's biggest shortcoming is the inability to make adjustments on the fly - that was exposed against AF. When something is thrown at BYU that they are not expecting they struggle.

In other words, I disagree that the offensive debacle could have been avoided. I just think that was inevitable to some extent this year and is likely to repeat itself a few more times.

If BYU had played Air Force defensively the same way BYU has played them the last few years, BYU very well could have won that game. Diluigi fumbled inside the ten and it's not inconceivable that the defense could have created more turnovers and/or provided the offense with better field position. Also, getting AF's offense off the field quicker would have necessitated that AF's defense be on the field longer.

I really can't fault the staff too much for doing the alternating thing in this case simply because I don't think I've ever seen a true freshman play particularly well at the beginning of a season. I thought the defense was going to be better than it was and it would allow BYU to be 4-2 or 5-1 before the TCU game. After the sure loss at TCU, I think the staff would then allow Heaps to start the remainder of the year because there are four straight gimmes (3 at home) after the TCU game.

IMO, this scenario has been moved up because of what happened in the AF game. The FSU game is now the TCU game. BYU's defense is going to get destroyed by a pissed off FSU and BYU's chances of winning that game are incredibly dim. I'm all for feeding Nelson to the wolves in this game and then giving Heaps the start against Nevada.

[Blueintheface]

That just shows you how close the Cardinals are back to being in a stretch of 50 years between playoff victories.

And I think if you'd asked a Cardinals fan in the offseason what the loss of Warner meant to them they'd probably have felt ok with it considering Leinart's supposed "monumental leap forward" this offseason (can't remember where I heard or read that this summer). The acquisition of Anderson helped allay fears even more. Now Cardinal's fans have to be thinking the same thing unless they can go out and find another QB and 2nd receiver very quickly.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Also, the perfect scenario would have been this:

1. James Lark serves an abbreviated, Max Hall mission.

2. James Lark panned out (he might still, you never know).

3. Lark would be a redshirt junior this year and then BYU could redshirt Jake Heaps.

4. Lark starts for two years.

5. Heaps is ready to go as a redshirt sophomore.


Another perfect scenario would be this:

1. I have a threeway with Kristen Bell and Mila Kunis.

All kidding aside, maybe had Lark gone on his mission after his first year (redshirt) and then had come back and had a year to be the second string QB, maybe he would have developed in time for this year. Heaps could have been redshirted and he would be two years behind Lark. Of course, I also wonder if Heaps would have come to BYU if he'd have known that he was likely only going to start for two years.