Hypothetical BYU scheduling as an independent

[Indy Coug]

UCF announces home and home with BYU, starting 2011 in Provo. I wish it were USF instead.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...,7182649.story

O'Neill's stomping grounds.

[falafel]

UCF announces home and home with BYU, starting 2011 in Provo. I wish it were USF instead.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...,7182649.story

[UtahDan]

You are kidding yourself. First, BYU will have the potential for multpiple bowl positions. You seem to think they must be undefeated in order to go bowling. Not so. Moreover, BYU may end up getting more excited to play Notre Dame or some other affilaition in any given year. I do agree, however, that this is a potential problem with independence.

I didn't say you wouldn't go bowling. Maybe the bowl situation for you guys will be so much improved next year that you really will have multiple nice options to get excited about with a 10-2, 9-3 or 8-4 record. As I sit here that seems a little intangible but maybe it is better than I think.

Second, I tihnk you are kidding yourself if you believe that it wouldnt be more meanginful for your fan base to slap down BYU in November even if the Utah hawks are in line to go to some mid-tier bowl. Esp if you lose your bowl. In fact, the ONLY time i can imagine it wouldnt be nice for your fans is if BYU keeps you out of a bowl ocmpltely. BYU's game shoudl not affect the PAC-XX championship as that will only be determined by conference games, right? The vitality of the series would be maintained for both schools if the game is played late in the year.

Maybe I am exaggerating the extent of the problem for you guys. But I view the lack of a conference championship or BCS to play in at the end of the year as being a pretty big problem. I don't disagree that the fans will enjoy the game, probably no matter what, I just think it is not a problem that it is in our best interests to help you solve because what is bad for you is good for us. We're not in the same conference any more but we still compete for the same recruits. As a Utah fan I want to see interest in your program wane and a less meaningful second half of the season could goose that along. I don't want that for any of you personally, but I think in a dispassionate analysis it makes sense. I don't particularly care if the rivalry game happens every year.

[UtahDan]

Nothing to play for is a bit over the top. BYU would still be looking to win as many as possible and play in a bowl game.

Fair enough, but the most tangible things to play for are a BCS bowl or a conference championship.

[SteelBlue]

What I am saying is that being in a conference with multiple bowl affiliations always give you something to play for even if you aren't in contention for a championship. That will be true BYU or no BYU at the end. For BYU on the other hand, you have nothing to play for after your first loss unless it is us. I think that is a massive problem for BYU and so I do think there is much more benefit to you than us. But yes, if we are having an awful year it would be nice to beat BYU at the end.

Nothing to play for is a bit over the top. BYU would still be looking to win as many as possible and play in a bowl game.

[creekster]

What I am saying is that being in a conference with multiple bowl affiliations always give you something to play for even if you aren't in contention for a championship. That will be true BYU or no BYU at the end. For BYU on the other hand, you have nothing to play for after your first loss unless it is us. I think that is a massive problem for BYU and so I do think there is much more benefit to you than us. But yes, if we are having an awful year it would be nice to beat BYU at the end.

You are kidding yourself. First, BYU will have the potential for multpiple bowl positions. You seem to think they must be undefeated in order to go bowling. Not so. Moreover, BYU may end up getting more excited to play Notre Dame or some other affilaition in any given year. I do agree, however, that this is a potential problem with independence.

Second, I tihnk you are kidding yourself if you believe that it wouldnt be more meanginful for your fan base to slap down BYU in November even if the Utah hawks are in line to go to some mid-tier bowl. Esp if you lose your bowl. In fact, the ONLY time i can imagine it wouldnt be nice for your fans is if BYU keeps you out of a bowl ocmpltely. BYU's game shoudl not affect the PAC-XX championship as that will only be determined by conference games, right? The vitality of the series would be maintained for both schools if the game is played late in the year.

[falafel]

What I am saying is that being in a conference with multiple bowl affiliations always give you something to play for even if you aren't in contention for a championship. That will be true BYU or no BYU at the end. For BYU on the other hand, you have nothing to play for after your first loss unless it is us. I think that is a massive problem for BYU and so I do think there is much more benefit to you than us. But yes, if we are having an awful year it would be nice to beat BYU at the end.

I think that's an overstatement.

[UtahDan]

A show of freindship? Gee, we can only hope you guys will be so nice. Gosh we're glad to be nearby. Tell me, if Utah has a lousy year, are you saying a slap down of BYU at the end of the year wouldnt put you in a warm and fuzzy mood? and say you are having a so-so year and are in the running for the GMAC bowl or some-such, do you really mean to suggest that Ute fans wouldnt take as much pleasure out of beating BYU as they would some third place finsiher from some other conference in a geogrpahically remote bowl? The only time it would work against Utah is if it was on track for the PAC-XX chmapionship. Hionestly, all smack aside, how often do you think that will ahppen?

What I am saying is that being in a conference with multiple bowl affiliations always give you something to play for even if you aren't in contention for a championship. That will be true BYU or no BYU at the end. For BYU on the other hand, you have nothing to play for after your first loss unless it is us. I think that is a massive problem for BYU and so I do think there is much more benefit to you than us. But yes, if we are having an awful year it would be nice to beat BYU at the end.

[UtahDan]

Huh? You're going to turn down a sellout game and the tv money from a big ratings draw because you don't like the comparative lack of incentive?

Olive branch...right.

As I say I think they will do it, but to the extent that you solve one of the major problems of independence (nothing to play for after the first loss) for one of your main recruiting rivals you might think twice about it. I do think solving that for you benefits you much more than us. And I don't think we would have any problem selling out that game in September. I DO however think that it is a good point that BYU always seems quicker out of the blocks thnt Utah does so we may lose more of those games.

[creekster]

Which is why Utah should not do it. There is no similar incentive for Utah and a much larger downside. If Utah does do it is a huge olive branch and show of friendship to BYU, IMO.

A show of freindship? Gee, we can only hope you guys will be so nice. Gosh we're glad to be nearby. Tell me, if Utah has a lousy year, are you saying a slap down of BYU at the end of the year wouldnt put you in a warm and fuzzy mood? and say you are having a so-so year and are in the running for the GMAC bowl or some-such, do you really mean to suggest that Ute fans wouldnt take as much pleasure out of beating BYU as they would some third place finsiher from some other conference in a geogrpahically remote bowl? The only time it would work against Utah is if it was on track for the PAC-XX chmapionship. Hionestly, all smack aside, how often do you think that will ahppen?

[UtahDan]

I will agree with you there. It doesn't make much sense for Utah, or than tradition. But it *could* be the same for Utah some years. If Utah is out of the running due to early losses and BYU is in the running for a BCS bowl, I imagine it would be fun to dash BYU's hopes.

C'mon, just do it in November. For us.

I have been saying over and over that one of the huge problems for BYU is that after the first loss you have nothing to play for. I think that could have a very detrimental affect on the morale of the team and the fans, be bad for recruiting etc. So in the most Machiavellian sense, Utah should help that to happen. But my sense is that the brass at the U does feel a kinship to BYU and won't go that route.

As an aside, my partner who is a VaTech booster was asking me about independence for BYU the other day. He reminded me that VaTech had been independent in football until it joined the Big East in 1991. His comment, was essentially, that independence had big downsides for them in that it was always hard to get a decent schedule and that "kids like to have championships to play for at the end of the year and that really hurt recruiting." I know it is not an apples to apples comparison but it is interesting. Maybe BYU can avoid some of those problems in scheduling.

[ERCougar]

Which is why Utah should not do it. There is no similar incentive for Utah and a much larger downside. If Utah does do it is a huge olive branch and show of friendship to BYU, IMO. I will be very curious to know the details. As Drum said, it is almost inconceivable that we are playing both BYU and BSU on the road next year, so maybe we are out of that BSU game. OR maybe the offer is for the 2011 game to be in SLC. Utah doesn't have much flexibility next year.

Huh? You're going to turn down a sellout game and the tv money from a big ratings draw because you don't like the comparative lack of incentive?

Olive branch...right.

[falafel]

Which is why Utah should not do it. There is no similar incentive for Utah and a much larger downside. If Utah does do it is a huge olive branch and show of friendship to BYU, IMO. I will be very curious to know the details. As Drum said, it is almost inconceivable that we are playing both BYU and BSU on the road next year, so maybe we are out of that BSU game. OR maybe the offer is for the 2011 game to be in SLC. Utah doesn't have much flexibility next year.

I will agree with you there. It doesn't make much sense for Utah, or than tradition. But it *could* be the same for Utah some years. If Utah is out of the running due to early losses and BYU is in the running for a BCS bowl, I imagine it would be fun to dash BYU's hopes.

C'mon, just do it in November. For us.

[UtahDan]

I agree with this. If we have a crappy start to our season as an indy, there's nothing left to play for - no conference championship, no conference rivalries, no rivalry game. Even when we've sucked, its always easy to get up for the Utah game. If we win, it still feels like we accomplished something.

Which is why Utah should not do it. There is no similar incentive for Utah and a much larger downside. If Utah does do it is a huge olive branch and show of friendship to BYU, IMO. I will be very curious to know the details. As Drum said, it is almost inconceivable that we are playing both BYU and BSU on the road next year, so maybe we are out of that BSU game. OR maybe the offer is for the 2011 game to be in SLC. Utah doesn't have much flexibility next year.

[falafel]

I would prefer to see it at the end of the season, like it is now. That way one or both schools have somethign riding on it and, if neither does, they can still play for bragging rights for the year. It is more meaningful at the end of the year.

I agree with this. If we have a crappy start to our season as an indy, there's nothing left to play for - no conference championship, no conference rivalries, no rivalry game. Even when we've sucked, its always easy to get up for the Utah game. If we win, it still feels like we accomplished something.