The brethren and BYU football from CB post

[KillerDog]

The real problem with this post is ... it just ain't true. There are many specifics he is citing that aren't true. There are some elements of it that are true. I will give you an example of something that is false, "BYU will never go to a BCS conference, the brethren won't allow it." That's false. The BOT specifically said they would not allow BYU to go to the Pac-10 but they also specifically encouraged the talks with the Big XII at the highest levels. The poster is right that BYU is primarily a religious institution but he misunderstands that the brethren are also men. They like sports. They like success. They encourage the practice of BYU athletics because of what success in BYU athletics can do for a young man. If you ever have a chance, talk to the football players about their callings and you'll see what I mean. These boys are being groomed.

It is true that BYU has denied donor dollars but the denials are always based on the donor not wanting to do things the BYU way. For example, if you donate enough money to BYU and want to make a fundraising organization to support BYU football, BYU will support you in that unless you refuse to allow them to put a BYU admin person on your board with complete veto power over any board decisions. BYU would rather reject money than take it with strings attached. That said, they won't reject money that does not have strings attached.

Bottom line, this guy has taken internet rumor and created a BYU world that resembles BYU but isn't BYU if you are truly an insider. He has the masses excited because they don't have access to top level OPB employees etc. but talk to those guys and you'll learn the real role of BYU athletics. The biggest fanatics regarding BYU sports are in the fundraising branch of the Church and the brethren aren't concerned.

One more thing, if you donate enough money to BYU or the Church, you can dictate some terms on things. Larry Miller learned this regarding the Joseph Smith Papers Project.

[Uncle Ted]

Troll.

It seems that 90% of the crap on CB is noise.

[jay santos]

The real problem with this post is ... it just ain't true. There are many specifics he is citing that aren't true. There are some elements of it that are true. I will give you an example of something that is false, "BYU will never go to a BCS conference, the brethren won't allow it." That's false. The BOT specifically said they would not allow BYU to go to the Pac-10 but they also specifically encouraged the talks with the Big XII at the highest levels. The poster is right that BYU is primarily a religious institution but he misunderstands that the brethren are also men. They like sports. They like success. They encourage the practice of BYU athletics because of what success in BYU athletics can do for a young man. If you ever have a chance, talk to the football players about their callings and you'll see what I mean. These boys are being groomed.

It is true that BYU has denied donor dollars but the denials are always based on the donor not wanting to do things the BYU way. For example, if you donate enough money to BYU and want to make a fundraising organization to support BYU football, BYU will support you in that unless you refuse to allow them to put a BYU admin person on your board with complete veto power over any board decisions. BYU would rather reject money than take it with strings attached. That said, they won't reject money that does not have strings attached.

Bottom line, this guy has taken internet rumor and created a BYU world that resembles BYU but isn't BYU if you are truly an insider. He has the masses excited because they don't have access to top level OPB employees etc. but talk to those guys and you'll learn the real role of BYU athletics. The biggest fanatics regarding BYU sports are in the fundraising branch of the Church and the brethren aren't concerned.

One more thing, if you donate enough money to BYU or the Church, you can dictate some terms on things. Larry Miller learned this regarding the Joseph Smith Papers Project.

I think you'd also get a much different view depending on if you got your inside info from Eyring/Bednar or Holland/Nelson/Perry.

[Uncle Ted]

This is what is known as the "Seattle Ute" effect. Yes it is probably a troll and no it is not perfectly executed, but what makes it so hard to dismiss is that much of it is in fact true.

The thing I like about SU's posts is they are good for the entertainment value. This "insidebyu" post isn't even funny.

If Ira Fulton donated $100M to College of Engineering to build a new building then they would have taken the money, built a new building, and most likely named it after him. Instead they changed the name of the entire engineering college to be named after him. Does BYU change the name of a college for simply offering to donate some money? How did "insidebyu" miss that little fact? I don't know why you guys waste your time reading the crap on the CB.

[byu71]

The real problem with this post is ... it just ain't true. There are many specifics he is citing that aren't true. There are some elements of it that are true. I will give you an example of something that is false, "BYU will never go to a BCS conference, the brethren won't allow it." That's false. The BOT specifically said they would not allow BYU to go to the Pac-10 but they also specifically encouraged the talks with the Big XII at the highest levels. The poster is right that BYU is primarily a religious institution but he misunderstands that the brethren are also men. They like sports. They like success. They encourage the practice of BYU athletics because of what success in BYU athletics can do for a young man. If you ever have a chance, talk to the football players about their callings and you'll see what I mean. These boys are being groomed.

I usually agree with you, but I think you are as far off as the guy claiming to be an insider is. The athletic program isn't there because the "brethern" are concerned about building young men. I am sure keeping young men away from porn, attendance in religion classes and marrying them off early is plenty good enough. You don't need athletics to do that.

My guess is it is two things. MONEY, did I say MONEY. Second, I truly believe the church as much as possible would like to be perceived as "unique" and yet at the same time not "fundamentalist weirdo's". I believe BYU athletics does as much for that as anything I can think of.

[jay santos]

BYU athletics is supported because
1) it's part of the college experience
2) it's a big PR tool for the church and BYU
3) there are a lot of BYU fans in the church including those in high places
4) financially it can be proven it's at worst break even

The question is how high the BOT want BYU athletics to fly and how much of the associated costs will it burden?

[Uncle Ted]

I usually agree with you, but I think you are as far off as the guy claiming to be an insider is. The athletic program isn't there because the "brethern" are concerned about building young men. I am sure keeping young men away from porn, attendance in religion classes and marrying them off early is plenty good enough. You don't need athletics to do that.

OK, so mormon ball players shouldn't go to BYU. I wished they told me that before I spent the money to send my son to BYU's football camp. Fortunately he is going to TCU's camp next week. TCU has good christian values, lots of religion classes, and pretty girls as well. Tuition is a b*tch so I hope he can get a scholarship.

[SeattleUte]

The real problem with this post is ... it just ain't true. There are many specifics he is citing that aren't true. There are some elements of it that are true. I will give you an example of something that is false, "BYU will never go to a BCS conference, the brethren won't allow it." That's false. The BOT specifically said they would not allow BYU to go to the Pac-10 but they also specifically encouraged the talks with the Big XII at the highest levels. The poster is right that BYU is primarily a religious institution but he misunderstands that the brethren are also men. They like sports. They like success. They encourage the practice of BYU athletics because of what success in BYU athletics can do for a young man. If you ever have a chance, talk to the football players about their callings and you'll see what I mean. These boys are being groomed.

It is true that BYU has denied donor dollars but the denials are always based on the donor not wanting to do things the BYU way. For example, if you donate enough money to BYU and want to make a fundraising organization to support BYU football, BYU will support you in that unless you refuse to allow them to put a BYU admin person on your board with complete veto power over any board decisions. BYU would rather reject money than take it with strings attached. That said, they won't reject money that does not have strings attached.

Bottom line, this guy has taken internet rumor and created a BYU world that resembles BYU but isn't BYU if you are truly an insider. He has the masses excited because they don't have access to top level OPB employees etc. but talk to those guys and you'll learn the real role of BYU athletics. The biggest fanatics regarding BYU sports are in the fundraising branch of the Church and the brethren aren't concerned.

One more thing, if you donate enough money to BYU or the Church, you can dictate some terms on things. Larry Miller learned this regarding the Joseph Smith Papers Project.

lol you claim to impeach the guy on "specifics". Then the first example you use is an unsubstantiated rumor you shared with the board that actually tends to support the poster's point (absent your opinionated gloss that the Brethren only meant the Pac 10). Your second example is a broad generlization that could not be more generic and is demonstrably false (I'm sure they would accept strings ands have; the question is what strings as your own post establishes).

[byu71]

OK, so mormon ball players shouldn't go to BYU. I wished they told me that before I spent the money to send my son to BYU's football camp. Fortunately he is going to TCU's camp next week. TCU has good christian values, lots of religion classes, and pretty girls as well. Tuition is a b*tch so I hope he can get a scholarship.

No they should go to BYU. I think athletics builds character and leaders.

However, I don't think the church leaders have that high on their priority list for BYU. I think they are more worried about having a place where young men and women can practice their religion and hook up ASAP with someone of their own faith. That is what I meant.

[KillerDog]

I think you'd also get a much different view depending on if you got your inside info from Eyring/Bednar or Holland/Nelson/Perry.

That may be true. I just know that the BOT is the current driving force behind the effort to get into the Pac-10. I also know that they attend BYU football and basketball games in force and consider it an excellent marketer for BYU and the LDS church. I'm sure everyone has their own ideas but the BOT as a whole has a position on BYU's athletics and it is positive.

[RC Vikings]

As a long time supporter of Ricks Sports I think "Oh shit not again".

[KillerDog]

lol you claim to impeach the guy on "specifics". Then the first example you use is an unsubstantiated rumor you shared with the board that actually tends to support the poster's point (absent your opinionated gloss that the Brethren only meant the Pac 10). Your second example is a broad generlization that could not be more generic and is demonstrably false (I'm sure they would accept strings ands have; the question is what strings as your own post establishes).

1) The rumor is only unsubstantiated to you because you don't know who I was talking to or who he was talking to.

2) It is not my opinion that the BOT only meant the Pac-10. The gentleman I spoke with specifically pointed out that the BOT and the University President viewed the Big XII as more like BYU because they "respected and admired" religion instead of hating religion.

3) He speaks as though BYU will readily drop dollars on the side of the road to get money. That is not the case. They make a huge effort to raise funds. They also will not take funds if there are strings attached that BYU feels are onerous. One example of this is that they won't take funds contingent on naming the building after the donor. I gave another example in my post.

4) My point is that he simply regurgitates internet crap without showing an understanding of the University and is therefore a fraud. I'm not trying to convince you of is fraudulence. Those who believe me or know me will know that I'm not blowing smoke. I troll but not about some stuff.

[wally]

The real problem with this post is ... it just ain't true. There are many specifics he is citing that aren't true. There are some elements of it that are true. I will give you an example of something that is false, "BYU will never go to a BCS conference, the brethren won't allow it." That's false. The BOT specifically said they would not allow BYU to go to the Pac-10 but they also specifically encouraged the talks with the Big XII at the highest levels. The poster is right that BYU is primarily a religious institution but he misunderstands that the brethren are also men. They like sports. They like success. They encourage the practice of BYU athletics because of what success in BYU athletics can do for a young man. If you ever have a chance, talk to the football players about their callings and you'll see what I mean. These boys are being groomed.

BYU Football = Zions Camp, the next generation.

[Uncle Ted]

No they should go to BYU. I think athletics builds character and leaders.

However, I don't think the church leaders have that high on their priority list for BYU. I think they are more worried about having a place where young men and women can practice their religion and hook up ASAP with someone of their own faith. That is what I meant.

If athletics is not a high priority at BYU then why do they spend so much money on it? According to the Dept. of Education:

BYU's athletic expenses for 2008 were $35,628,193.

Compare to Utah: In 2008, Utah's athletic expenses were $30,983,856.

FYI, it looks like BYU was in the red in 2008 on the athletic budget according to the report they submitted to ed.gov. Utah was in the black (of course, 2008 wasn't a bad year for Utah). If the church leaders don't have BYU athletics high on the priority list then I argue they should at least light a fire under Holmoe's butt to keep the budget balanced.

[byu71]

If athletics is not a high priority at BYU then why do they spend so much money on it? According to the Dept. of Education:

BYU's athletic expenses for 2008 were $35,628,193.

Compare to Utah: In 2008, Utah's athletic expenses were $30,983,856.

FYI, it looks like BYU was in the red in 2008 on the athletic budget according to the report they submitted to ed.gov. Utah was in the black (of course, 2008 wasn't a bad year for Utah). If the church leaders don't have BYU athletics high on the priority list then I argue they should at least light a fire under Holmoe's butt to keep the budget balanced.

Because you have to spend money to make money. I am surprised BYU went into the Red in '08. They very may well have. On the other hand I suspect they can keep records however they want and not according to generally accepted acctg. principles. I will bet the athletci department doesn't charge for the MC for devotionals and other activities held there.