The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[myboynoah]

From what I've gathered, the biggest obstacle to Big 12 expansion isn't turning out to be Sunday play after all. It's turning out to be deciding on a second team.

Arkansas is playing hard-to-get (although they say even with less TV money they'd be better off financially in the Big 12), Notre Dame is a pipe dream, Louisville is stuck with some pretty stiff Big East exit penalties.

Memphis? I don't think anybody wants to take that risk...

That leaves... TCU. No wonder they're not in any hurry.

Interesting. From whence are you gathering this information? Also, why not consider Red Legger's suggestion of CSU?

[Uncle Ted]

From what I've gathered, the biggest obstacle to Big 12 expansion isn't turning out to be Sunday play after all. It's turning out to be deciding on a second team.

Arkansas is playing hard-to-get (although they say even with less TV money they'd be better off financially in the Big 12), Notre Dame is a pipe dream, Louisville is stuck with some pretty stiff Big East exit penalties.

Memphis? I don't think anybody wants to take that risk...

That leaves... TCU. No wonder they're not in any hurry.

Did you gather that from reading this thread or something other source?

Yes, I would speculate no Sunday play isn't an issue in the Big 12. There are a lot of christian values in the Big 12 that respect that so they would be willing to work with BYU. The Berkeley's in the Pac-10, on the other hand, claim that the no sunday play is the reason BYU wasn't given an invite when the issues are deeper than that.

FedEx will pay $10M/yr to take Memphis but what would the Big 12 do when the money runs out (when the FedEx CEO's son is no longer playing)?

Jerry Jones has most likely been bending Arkansas' ear to jump to the Big 12 given some comments his son told the press (and Jerry denied, of course) but they would most likely demand to come in as a $20M/yr member. Given Arkansas' performance in the SEC they really don't justify $20M/yr (but maybe a team like LSU would).

Notre Dame could be a possibility if their TV ratings keep getting lower but not until around 2015 when their contract runs out. Of course, they would most likely be a better fit in the Big Ten. Therefore, ND is most likely a pipe dream for the Big 12, like you said.

Gary Patterson mentioned there are reasons why TCU wouldn't get an invite (reasons coming from Baylor, Tech and A&M).

What are the Big East exit penalties details for Louisville? The Big 12 could be hoping, maybe, that the Big Ten will be raiding the Big East for a few more teams and hoping that Louisville will shake away at the same time.

Of course, there other MWC teams like AFA, CSU and, maybe, New Mexico (a long time rival of Tech).

[Hot Lunch]

From what I've gathered, the biggest obstacle to Big 12 expansion isn't turning out to be Sunday play after all. It's turning out to be deciding on a second team.

Arkansas is playing hard-to-get (although they say even with less TV money they'd be better off financially in the Big 12), Notre Dame is a pipe dream, Louisville is stuck with some pretty stiff Big East exit penalties.

Memphis? I don't think anybody wants to take that risk...

That leaves... TCU. No wonder they're not in any hurry.

Have they decided on a first team yet?

[DU Ute]

Have they decided on a first team yet?

[LiveCoug]

Have they decided on a first team yet?

I miss the BYU fan hot lunch.

[Hot Lunch]

I miss the BYU fan hot lunch.

I promise I wasn't asking it to be a dick. Just like there were teams that the Pac-10 wanted more than they wanted Utah, there are teams that the Big 12 wants more than they want BYU.

[Red Legger]

This Big 12 coach shows promise:

http://www.redraiders.com/2010/08/02...to-start-camp/

I love how Tuberville just plain admits to recruiting non-qualifiers and moving em thru the backdoor and calls out his oline for being fat all in one interview. You have to love the honesty.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[Red Legger]

Did you gather that from reading this thread or something other source?

Yes, I would speculate no Sunday play isn't an issue in the Big 12. There are a lot of christian values in the Big 12 that respect that so they would be willing to work with BYU. The Berkeley's in the Pac-10, on the other hand, claim that the no sunday play is the reason BYU wasn't given an invite when the issues are deeper than that.

FedEx will pay $10M/yr to take Memphis but what would the Big 12 do when the money runs out (when the FedEx CEO's son is no longer playing)?

Jerry Jones has most likely been bending Arkansas' ear to jump to the Big 12 given some comments his son told the press (and Jerry denied, of course) but they would most likely demand to come in as a $20M/yr member. Given Arkansas' performance in the SEC they really don't justify $20M/yr (but maybe a team like LSU would).

Notre Dame could be a possibility if their TV ratings keep getting lower but not until around 2015 when their contract runs out. Of course, they would most likely be a better fit in the Big Ten. Therefore, ND is most likely a pipe dream for the Big 12, like you said.

Gary Patterson mentioned there are reasons why TCU wouldn't get an invite (reasons coming from Baylor, Tech and A&M).

What are the Big East exit penalties details for Louisville? The Big 12 could be hoping, maybe, that the Big Ten will be raiding the Big East for a few more teams and hoping that Louisville will shake away at the same time.

Of course, there other MWC teams like AFA, CSU and, maybe, New Mexico (a long time rival of Tech).

TCU is also out w/ the Big 8 schools. We have more than enough Teja$ in this league and OU would never accept direct competition in DFW for recruiting purposes. Once the pipe dreams (Notre Dame/Ark) settle down and reality kicks UT in the pocketbook (ie no Show on Championship Sat), the next best option is BYU and the next biggest teevee market (ie Denver). Just some patience is needed until the Big 12-2 gets done sucking $20-30 million outta UNL/CU over the next year in 'damages'. It would be hard to show damages if the Big 12 just traded Omaha (75th biggest teevee market behind even Wichita) for SLC (31st biggest teevee market just ahead of KC).

As for the Notre Dame option, you never know:

http://fantake.com/forums/topic.php?id=1319#post-6869

There is a reason everyone wants a piece of UT.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[Uncle Ted]

TCU is also out w/ the Big 8 schools. We have more than enough Teja$ in this league and OU would never accept direct competition in DFW for recruiting purposes. Once the pipe dreams (Notre Dame/Ark) settle down and reality kicks UT in the pocketbook (ie no Show on Championship Sat), the next best option is BYU and the next biggest teevee market (ie Denver). Just some patience is needed until the Big 12-2 gets done sucking $20-30 million outta UNL/CU over the next year in 'damages'. It would be hard to show damages if the Big 12 just traded Omaha (75th biggest teevee market behind even Wichita) for SLC (31st biggest teevee market just ahead of KC).

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

Yes, exactly...

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showpo...&postcount=567

[OSUCougar]

Yes, exactly...

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showpo...&postcount=567

So, you are saying there's a chance. I read ya!!!

[Uncle Ted]

As for the Notre Dame option, you never know:

http://fantake.com/forums/topic.php?id=1319#post-6869

There is a reason everyone wants a piece of UT.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

The timing of the potential UT-ND games is interesting...

Texas is working hard to finalize a four-year, home-and-home football series with Notre Dame, starting in 2015, a school official said Tuesday, but the agreement has not been completed.

given ND's contract with NBC runs out around this same time. Even though ND tv ratings have been suffering it seems that NBC may still renew their contract in 2015 just based on their name and not their performance on the field.

[Jacob]

Did you gather that from reading this thread or something other source?

Yes, I would speculate no Sunday play isn't an issue in the Big 12. There are a lot of christian values in the Big 12 that respect that so they would be willing to work with BYU. The Berkeley's in the Pac-10, on the other hand, claim that the no sunday play is the reason BYU wasn't given an invite when the issues are deeper than that.

FedEx will pay $10M/yr to take Memphis but what would the Big 12 do when the money runs out (when the FedEx CEO's son is no longer playing)?

FEDEX has denied that report

[shoganai]

Did you gather that from reading this thread or something other source?

Yes, I would speculate no Sunday play isn't an issue in the Big 12. There are a lot of christian values in the Big 12 that respect that so they would be willing to work with BYU. The Berkeley's in the Pac-10, on the other hand, claim that the no sunday play is the reason BYU wasn't given an invite when the issues are deeper than that.

FedEx will pay $10M/yr to take Memphis but what would the Big 12 do when the money runs out (when the FedEx CEO's son is no longer playing)?

Jerry Jones has most likely been bending Arkansas' ear to jump to the Big 12 given some comments his son told the press (and Jerry denied, of course) but they would most likely demand to come in as a $20M/yr member. Given Arkansas' performance in the SEC they really don't justify $20M/yr (but maybe a team like LSU would).

Notre Dame could be a possibility if their TV ratings keep getting lower but not until around 2015 when their contract runs out. Of course, they would most likely be a better fit in the Big Ten. Therefore, ND is most likely a pipe dream for the Big 12, like you said.

Gary Patterson mentioned there are reasons why TCU wouldn't get an invite (reasons coming from Baylor, Tech and A&M).

What are the Big East exit penalties details for Louisville? The Big 12 could be hoping, maybe, that the Big Ten will be raiding the Big East for a few more teams and hoping that Louisville will shake away at the same time.

Of course, there other MWC teams like AFA, CSU and, maybe, New Mexico (a long time rival of Tech).

I have some "secondary" sources for this one. Until the last couple of days I have basically known nothing about what's going on in the Big 12, but some conversations I had have shed some light. As usual, nothing Earth-shattering, but some interesting tidbits none-the-less.

Most of the media guys I'm still in touch with are local or Pac-10 guys. They don't have much access to the Big 12 themselves, but they know guys who know and so forth. It's very incestuous . A lot of the time when someone cites an "unnamed source close to the program," they're talking about the local Dick Harmon - reminds me of a funny Dick Harmon story I'll have to tell some other time.

First off, nobody but Chip Brown is buying for a second that the Big 12 doesn't want to expand in the near future. There are way too many dogs in the fight and way too many disadvantages to making a go with a 10-team conference. If the Big 12 doesn't expand and be proactive, a lot of people think they won't survive past 2015.

Apparently nobody respects Dan Beebe. Behind his back people are snickering that he's taking all this credit for keeping the Big 12 together, when the bottom line is he was a clown in the whole process and Larry Scott basically pulled down his pants in front of the entire senior class. My Pac-10 people tell me that Larry did not get played. He knew the layout and the risks going into it. He swung for the fences knowing it was a long shot, but with absolutely nothing to lose. Scott is a smart guy and has positioned his conference very well for the future.

Sunday play with BYU is always an issue - until the ADs all get together and look at it. Whenever that happens, they realize two things: 1. None of them really like playing on Sundays in the first place. Their coaches actually hate it. 2. It's not that tough to work around because BYU only requires that BYU doesn't play on Sundays. That means a few post-season things have to be adjusted by a day or so, and the regular season scheduling tweaked very minimally.

As far as Memphis goes, nobody wants to touch that. The $10mil promise comes with a big can of worms attached. Namely, it gives the potential for a slighted school or conference to take civil action on some lawyer-speak basis that some say could eventually challenge the whole tax-exempt thing. There is no word on how and for how long the $10mil would be guaranteed. Add in that Memphis is really not an attractive option in any other way, and it's not very viable for anybody except maybe the Big East.

Notre Dame just isn't going to happen. Yes, there are financial incentives, but you have to understand the Notre Dame culture. To them, giving up independence would almost be like BYU giving up the honor code - almost. Some would be happy and see the benefits, but it would also destroy what has defined the program and it's going to take something pretty radical to overcome that. Delaney understand that, hence the tone of his latest comments.

Nobody has leaked the numbers, but some are saying Arkansas needs the Big 12 north for reasons both financial and competitive. Apparently they've done the math and some projections show the Razorbacks actually benefiting financially, even though they'd get less in the TV department. The feeling is that the boosters are pretty well split down the middle, but the general fan base is heavily opposed to the Big 12. Arkansas would probably jump, but they're not sure they can pull it off politically. The Big 12 is willing to wait it out for now and let them work on it internally.

The Big East requires 27 months advance notice, and charges a $5mil exit penalty. Louisville is a nice option, but they're not likely to challenge the exit rules. The Big East showed they meant business when they went civil action against BC, Miami, etc. The Big 12 doesn't want to wait around for two-plus years and deal with more exit penalty issues over a team that may or may not turn out to be worth it.

TCU is on the table and much higher up on the list than Patterson and Beebe would lead you to believe. Two words: Texas politics. The Houston/SMU legislative backers may get half of their wish. They'll force a Texas team in, just not the one they want. Plus, the Big 12 really wants to even out the balance of power between North and South, and TCU is a team that could do that.

Air Force is a decent geographical option, but the more you look at them, the less they look like a program prepared to succeed and contribute at the BCS table. Ditto for Colorado State, New Mexico, etc. The fact is those teams are still way too small time and bring nothing to the table that someone else can't bring more of.

Anyway, one other thing that I have heard is things at BYU are literally *too* quiet. People who normally talk off the record and are pretty open and accessible are suddenly not talking. Reporters were trying to get someone, anyone to talk and couldn't find anybody until Holmoe finally relented and gave his interview where he really wouldn't answer anything directly. The general feeling is that Holmoe and co. have put out a gag order. Whatever they're doing, they really don't want it leaked out anywhere.

My gut feeling says independence, but probably only in the very, very short term - one season or less.

[Donuthole]

"Hear it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard it from another you've been messing around."

or

"I just got word from a guy who heard from the guy next door to me, the girl he met just loves to pet, and it fits you to-a-tee."

Obsessed much? You could be pleasuring yourself with the other Utes posters over in the Pac-12 Anticipation Thread? And yet you choose to concern yourself with the reliability of BYU to Big 12 rumors. I guess you have to do something during the refractory period.

[Donuthole]

Huh? Something reminds me of some song lyrics and I'm obsessed?

Maybe your just a bit sensitive.

Whose just a bit sensitive?