The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Uncle Ted]

So it seems that, like Mack, Beebe is in no hurry to change the Big 12 name:

I'm in communication with (Big Ten) commissioner Jim Delany now about a swap," he joked, but he expected to discuss the question seriously over the next year on many levels. "It may be our brand is significant enough that we don't have to change it."

"I think we need to look at not just whether we change our name or our brand (but) what are the messages we want to convey going forward?"

[Uncle Ted]

Gary Patterson on TCU going to the Big 12:

"The Big 12 will never look at TCU because Baylor, Texas A&M and Texas Tech wouldn't want it to happen."

[PolyCougar]

I guess I need some enlightenment. I don't fully understand why Air Force is almost always mentioned before Colorado State, when it comes to Big 12 expansion talk. I figured Military Schools would be left to their own (though I love playing them, don't get me wrong... every game feels like a mini 4th of July for me).

I know Colorado State royally sucks at sports... but they don't suck as much as CU, who was already in the Big 12, and are the same distance from Denver as Colorado Springs. I guess if TV sets are what matters, then I can see a built in audience with the Air Force. But I really don't see Colorado State as a huge cellar dweller in the next few years. I still have nightmares of Bradlee Van Pelt, and the good Lubbick teams before that.

I guess a High School sized basketball arena, and a funky small football stadium don't help much, but its not much different than Air Force, and the football stadium can be expanded. I am in no way a fan of the Rams, just confused as to why they are always WAY down the list of possible teams for expansion, if on it at all (oh yeah.... went all caps back there. Thank you Dan Gilbert for a lesson in expressive writing).

[All-American]

I guess I need some enlightenment. I don't fully understand why Air Force is almost always mentioned before Colorado State, when it comes to Big 12 expansion talk. I figured Military Schools would be left to their own (though I love playing them, don't get me wrong... every game feels like a mini 4th of July for me).

I know Colorado State royally sucks at sports... but they don't suck as much as CU, who was already in the Big 12, and are the same distance from Denver as Colorado Springs. I guess if TV sets are what matters, then I can see a built in audience with the Air Force. But I really don't see Colorado State as a huge cellar dweller in the next few years. I still have nightmares of Bradlee Van Pelt, and the good Lubbick teams before that.

I guess a High School sized basketball arena, and a funky small football stadium don't help much, but its not much different than Air Force, and the football stadium can be expanded. I am in no way a fan of the Rams, just confused as to why they are always WAY down the list of possible teams for expansion, if on it at all (oh yeah.... went all caps back there. Thank you Dan Gilbert for a lesson in expressive writing).

Because it feels noble to have a military school associate with you. That, and pregame flybys.

The only reason they're talking about EITHER of these schools is because they are seriously considering BYU, and it looks better if there is at least a state touching the state of the fellow conference member. That means either CSU or Air Force.

But I kind of agree with you; CSU makes more sense than AFA. CSU is a CU-lite in a lot of ways. They're not very good, but at least it's in Colorado. Gets you another state, and you know they at least have the potential to be good on occasion.

[Uncle Ted]

I guess I need some enlightenment. I don't fully understand why Air Force is almost always mentioned before Colorado State, when it comes to Big 12 expansion talk. I figured Military Schools would be left to their own (though I love playing them, don't get me wrong... every game feels like a mini 4th of July for me).

I know Colorado State royally sucks at sports... but they don't suck as much as CU, who was already in the Big 12, and are the same distance from Denver as Colorado Springs. I guess if TV sets are what matters, then I can see a built in audience with the Air Force. But I really don't see Colorado State as a huge cellar dweller in the next few years. I still have nightmares of Bradlee Van Pelt, and the good Lubbick teams before that.

I guess a High School sized basketball arena, and a funky small football stadium don't help much, but its not much different than Air Force, and the football stadium can be expanded. I am in no way a fan of the Rams, just confused as to why they are always WAY down the list of possible teams for expansion, if on it at all (oh yeah.... went all caps back there. Thank you Dan Gilbert for a lesson in expressive writing).

There is a BYU fan that posted "BYU's resume" on some other boards and he presented a "numbers argument" that shows Air Force way ahead of CSU and just behind Louisville.

Here is one of his links.

It is kind of embarrassing that he posted this everywhere but he did put together some good data.

[beelzebabette]

As usual, I don't know what I'm talking about, but...

If you're talking about bringing BYU because it has both a local & national following, doesn't Air Force sound like a better parter than CSU (though neither are that great of a pairing)? Plus, there's not really any recruiting overlap.

[PolyCougar]

There is a BYU fan that posted "BYU's resume" on some other boards and he presented a "numbers argument" that shows Air Force way ahead of CSU and just behind Louisville.

Here is one of his links.

It is kind of embarrassing that he posted this everywhere but he did put together some good data.

Wow... what a list. Impressed with the info, but your right about the embarrassing factor... dude opened himself up for some serious abuse. I had no idea that the AF Academy's stadium held 52,000... that's crazy to me.

I for sure get the desire to have states touching would be nice for a conference, and see why both would be in the running if BYU is as high on the list as some out there say they are. It just seemed to me that Colorado State has always had more to offer when it comes to the ability of putting together eventual contenders, without all the restrictions Air Force runs into with recruiting, practices, etc...

That said... fly by's are always a great way to get a game going, and their annoying and ridiculously tough style of play in football is pretty cool in the end. I'm always glad their the guys prepping to defend the country.

[Jeff Lebowski]

There is a BYU fan that posted "BYU's resume" on some other boards and he presented a "numbers argument" that shows Air Force way ahead of CSU and just behind Louisville.

Here is one of his links.

It is kind of embarrassing that he posted this everywhere but he did put together some good data.

Why did he have to say how many kids he has and that he is an LDS bishop?

What a dork.

[Donuthole]

But I kind of agree with you; CSU makes more sense than AFA. CSU is a CU-lite in a lot of ways. They're not very good, but at least it's in Colorado. Gets you another state, and you know they at least have the potential to be good on occasion.

Last time I checked, AFA was in the same state as CSU.

[Red Legger]

Unless the Tcups....

pull off a miracle and talk the Domers into coming south, Colorado will soon be represented in the Big 12 one way or the other. The old Big 8 is not going to give up out there w/out a fight. I mean for gawd sakes Phog Allen was scheduling CU/CSU back in the 30s/40s to bring the Buffs into the old Big 7. KU/KSU especially have large alumni followings in Colorado (ie CU's MBB coach and athletic director are former Jayhawks), and that fact will soon show on CU's basketball attendance. And amongst the entire Big 12, it would be a great pleasure to elevate CSU/Ft Collins into CU/Boulder's old spot and make the Buffs earn market share. I'd be fine w/ either AirForce or CSU. But I'll guarandamteeya that it will be one or the other coming w/ the Cougars.

Also, I could see aTm w/ its Corps of Cadets making a strong case for chasing AirForce. I believe that aTm commissions as many officers per year as West Point and the AggieBand could probably teach the Cadets a thing or two about marching. That crew is absolutely amazing and when the Aggies visit Provo for the first time, you'll really, really want to stick around at halftime and watch the AggieBand.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[Uncle Ted]

Dan Beebe says UT-OU game will stay in October during the state fair:

While the Big 12 might need and desire late-season exposure, commissioner Dan Beebe will leave the AT&T Red River Rivalry alone.

Beebe said Tuesday the league had no plans to move Texas-Oklahoma from its October date at Fair Park to December with the impending end of the conference title game.

"I think the major consideration is to keep the traditions of the conference as well as we can, and the tradition of that game has been around the State Fair of Texas," Beebe said. "And I don't see that really being something that we would want to mess with. It's just too important to those institutions, this region and so forth."

This is a good thing. If it wasn't for the Texas and Oklahoma fans no one would go to the state fair.

Also, the UT-A&M game will stay scheduled during Thanksgiving week:

He also indicated that the Thanksgiving week date for Texas-Texas A&M fell into the same category although the league wants at least one regular-season game in early December opposite title games of rival conferences.

So which game will the Big 12-2 schedule on conference championship saturday? UT-Tech? OU-OSU? Given that the SEC, Pac-12 and Big Ten will all be having their conference championship games that same day there will be some good games competing for my eyes.

[All-American]

Last time I checked, AFA was in the same state as CSU.

That was my understanding as well. Had I implied otherwise?

EDIT: I just reread my earlier post. Sorry, it was sloppily written. I had meant it to be a different thought as to the merits of CSU rather than why they would have been better than Air Force.

[Red Legger]

Wins over the Aggies have a way of sparking great seasons. Did so for the Hawks in 2007 down in College Station. Did the Aggies bring their band, though? AggieBand is a part of the Corps of Cadets and has to be the best band in the country. Absolutely amazing the show they did the last time they were in Larryville. I never watch halftime shows w/ the usual 'Salute to Star Wars' or whatever, but the AggieBand has a way of planting you in your seat.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[PaloAltoCougar]

...when the Aggies visit Provo for the first time, you'll really, really want to stick around at halftime and watch the AggieBand.

I had the misfortune of witnessing A&M's annihilation of BYU and Ty Detmer's shoulders in the 1990 Holiday Bowl. One of the clear memories of that game was the halftime show, something to which I typically pay little attention. That night, however, I was extremely impressed by the A&M band and the precision with which it marched up, down, all over the field (not unlike its team that night). BYU's band came out and opened with "Hey Look Me Over", a tune that might have warmed the cockles of a few septuagenarian knitters in the stands, but which otherwise seemed so depressingly lame and inappropriate that it served as merely another indignity in an evening filled with them.

[Goatnapper'96]

Also, I could see aTm w/ its Corps of Cadets making a strong case for chasing AirForce. I believe that aTm commissions as many officers per year as West Point and the AggieBand could probably teach the Cadets a thing or two about marching. That crew is absolutely amazing and when the Aggies visit Provo for the first time, you'll really, really want to stick around at halftime and watch the AggieBand.

The Cadet band at West Point does not march, the Corps of Cadets pass in review as either single regiments, double regimental or the entire brigade. Don't insult West Point with comparisons to a bunch of southern wannabees whose SAT scores were not high enough. aTm is to Utah as BYU is to West Point! Besides that the aTm corps cannot march like the United States Corps of Cadets. Saying that, marching is about as requisite a skill to warfighting as using a T-square is to good mechanical engineering. Frederick the Great's maneuvering huge Prussian armies with thousands right wheeling in unison was nipplehardening and whatnot, but one good ol' MLRS round today or several well placed claymores and right-wheeling is as good or usefull as 38 Triple D's on Ellen Degeneress....or something like that.

BYU and aTm already have a love affair. Our first big win over a national power as a program was over aTm when a half dead qb (Gifford Neilsen or perhaps Marc Wilson- but I think I was 5 at the time), sporting a 103+ temperature before game time, threw a game winning td pass, including a spectacular diving catch by name forgotten, in the old Astrodome back in the day. Our best season ever was kicked off by BYU beating aTm on another late TD pass, who was ranked top 10 preseason, in a Kickoff Classic in Provo. In between the two teams played once and the wrecking crew and Quinten Corryat did things to our Heisman Trophy winner that would make queer inmates at a prison blush.