The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Viking]

We had Beebe in Provo is September. Should have closed the deal then.

[SteelBlue]

Dumb and Dumber, although I misspelled 'wit'.

It saddens me that you had to explain that.

[Jeff Lebowski]

We had Beebe in Provo is September. Should have closed the deal then.

Please tell me this isn't one of your "facts".

[Viking]

Please tell me this isn't one of your "facts".

I saw him.

[San Juan Sun]

I saw him.

Was he the guy wearing the "Dead Man Walking" sign on his back?

[Portland Ute]

Please teach me how to skim 12,000 posts, that is raw talent.

Can't it also be said that it is one more chance to get a super high quality win?

Nobody said I skimmed the entire thing this afternoon.

Line upon line, precept upon precept. Here a little, there a little.

[USUC]

At this point all of the CFB "political capital" from the domination and innovation that came from BYU in the 70s, 80s, and 90s is gone. I fear that BYU, in the minds of the CFB power brokers, is indistinguishable from East Carolina, Fresno, or Houston. BYU needs to win to get back on the grid. TCU and Utah peaked at the right time. If BYU can put together undefeated or one loss seasons they will be attractive again. If they continue with the 3 loss or more seasons, they will stay where they are at. However, at least independence gives BYU chances to beat a couple of higher profile teams.

[Shaka]

So you think TH got on the radio and just told a big bald-faced lie? A lie that would be impossible to maintain long-term and that would forever taint his career?

I don't think he lied at all. His statement summed up was essentially that there were discussions but there was never an offer. To me the statement was vague and there wasn't any information given about how far the discussions got and why there was never an offer. Tom is still playing what happened close to the vest because it doesn't serve him or BYU to get down to the nitty gritty. People are having a hard enough time with independence. It would really suck if we found out that there was never an offer because the botched the preliminary negotiations. Money would cease to flow from the BYU71's until there was a measure of accountability.

I personally think BYU is in a very precarious position. The administration is walking a tightrope and it's entirely possible that they fall off taking BYU football relevance down with them.

[TripletDaddy]

I've always felt that Tom was being a bit coy when he said that there were no offers. I believe he is telling the truth when he says that. But I also notice that he has never elaborated on the discussions that did take place. If the B12 flew into town to gauge interest and BYU overplayed its hand, thereby causing the B12 to back off, technically there is no offer. But saying such doesn't tell the true story.

I think Tom is being ambiguous because he is a company guy. I also recognize that this is pure speculation. We do know that there were conversations with the B12. What else were they talking about last summer prior to inviting TCU if not BYUs potential membership?

[venkman]

I've always felt that Tom was being a bit coy when he said that there were no offers. I believe he is telling the truth when he says that. But I also notice that he has never elaborated on the discussions that did take place. If the B12 flew into town to gauge interest and BYU overplayed its hand, thereby causing the B12 to back off, technically there is no offer. But saying such doesn't tell the true story.

I think Tom is being ambiguous because he is a company guy. I also recognize that this is pure speculation. We do know that there were conversations with the B12. What else were they talking about last summer prior to inviting TCU if not BYUs potential membership?

I could be in total denial, but I don't think we really had a hand to overplay. I really think we wanted in the Big12 more than they wanted us. Again, could be total denial, because the alternative is facing up to the possibility that Tom and Cec unbelievable and unforgivably screwed the pooch.

[TripletDaddy]

I could be in total denial, but I don't think we really had a hand to overplay. I really think we wanted in the Big12 more than they wanted us. Again, could be total denial, because the alternative is facing up to the possibility that Tom and Cec unbelievable and unforgivably screwed the pooch.

I think the truth could be somewhere in between. By "overplay their hand," I mean that BYU and the B12 spoke and BYU asked for the very same things that were being reported in the press last summer..."Hey, we just got out of a bad TV deal and finally inked our own contract. if we go to the B12, we want to make sure we are on TV a minimum of X times. We also want to rebroadcast our games the next day." The B12 probably said, "ok, we will call you if we are interested in that." Meanwhile, they call TCU and the rest is history.

No, I don't think BYU had a laundry list of demands but a few specific ones and then regarding TV. I have never bought into the Sunday play thing because, assuming that ANY discussions occurred with the b12, everyone in the entire country knows where BYU stands on this issue. The B12 would not have bothered making a single call or visit if Sunday play was the issue.

So I'm not sure Cecil and Tom "botched" things. I think they entered the negotiation period assuming that they had more rope than they did.....throw out an initial high offer knowing that the guy across the table will counter with something lower...reasonable enough. Only, the B12 didnt have time or interest in countering. And BYU didn't expect that. So TCU got the call instead. That was the extent of "botching" things.

That is pretty much the only general scenario that makes any sense to me in all of this assuming the following simple facts, all of which I believe have been verified: 1) There have been ongoing talks with the B12 and 2) The B12 visited Provo.

[TripletDaddy]

13-0 sez: Ok, fine. We called the Domers.

4 key dates to watch for FSU's move to the B12

[venkman]

I think the truth could be somewhere in between. By "overplay their hand," I mean that BYU and the B12 spoke and BYU asked for the very same things that were being reported in the press last summer..."Hey, we just got out of a bad TV deal and finally inked our own contract. if we go to the B12, we want to make sure we are on TV a minimum of X times. We also want to rebroadcast our games the next day." The B12 probably said, "ok, we will call you if we are interested in that." Meanwhile, they call TCU and the rest is history.

No, I don't think BYU had a laundry list of demands but a few specific ones and then regarding TV. I have never bought into the Sunday play thing because, assuming that ANY discussions occurred with the b12, everyone in the entire country knows where BYU stands on this issue. The B12 would not have bothered making a single call or visit if Sunday play was the issue.

So I'm not sure Cecil and Tom "botched" things. I think they entered the negotiation period assuming that they had more rope than they did.....throw out an initial high offer knowing that the guy across the table will counter with something lower...reasonable enough. Only, the B12 didnt have time or interest in countering. And BYU didn't expect that. So TCU got the call instead. That was the extent of "botching" things.

That is pretty much the only general scenario that makes any sense to me in all of this assuming the following simple facts, all of which I believe have been verified: 1) There have been ongoing talks with the B12 and 2) The B12 visited Provo.

I can see that. So why didn't the Big12 counter? My contention is that they weren't that serious about BYU to begin with. Interested enough to fire up the jet I guess...maybe they visited several schools. If BYU had said "hey, just tell us where to sign", would we be in? I don't think we'll ever know, but I don't think think so. Hard to believe the Frogs got in over us though...maybe they have some pull with "The Texas Legislature".

[TripletDaddy]

I can see that. So why didn't the Big12 counter? My contention is that they weren't that serious about BYU to begin with. Interested enough to fire up the jet I guess...maybe they visited several schools. If BYU had said "hey, just tell us where to sign", would we be in? I don't think we'll ever know, but I don't think think so. Hard to believe the Frogs got in over us though...maybe they have some pull with "The Texas Legislature".

lol @ the Texas legislature.

No, I think they were genuinely pressured. Remember the public perception was one of disarray, discord, and total instability. They needed a quick fix. TCU made sense geographically and basically came out of nowhere for the invite. Again, I don't think these conferences engage in discussions, let alone conduct visits, unless there is interest. I think the window of opportunity was a perfect storm for BYU and Tom and co probably overestimated the amount of time they had to engage in negotiations.

I don't think it would have been as easy as, "where do we sign." but directionally, the TV issue probably presented too many hurdles and would take too much time to iron out. TCU had no such constraints.

As you said, we will never know, but to my original point, Tom's simplistic mantra that no offer has been extended just rings too hollow. There is more to that story.

[myboynoah]

As you said, we will never know, but to my original point, Tom's simplistic mantra that no offer has been extended just rings too hollow. There is more to that story.

This story will be revealed in TH's new book, They Came and Passed, which will be on the shelves at your local Deseret Book for Christmas 2013.