My take on Bronco/Manti/etc.

[CardiacCoug]

BYU's glass ceiling is due to its parochialism, including its refusal to come to tersm with its racist past.

In SU's mind 16- and 17-year old African American football players are reading the complete works of D. Michael Quinn and Fawn Brodie and analyzing the cultural implications of the pre-1978 Priesthood ban prior to deciding where to play football.

[il Padrino Ute]

In SU's mind 16- and 17-year old African American football players are reading the complete works of D. Michael Quinn and Fawn Brodie and analyzing the cultural implications of the pre-1978 Priesthood ban prior to deciding where to play football.

Never mind the fact that none of these kids were even considered to be conceived in 1978.

SU is being SU.

[SeattleUte]

In SU's mind 16- and 17-year old African American football players are reading the complete works of D. Michael Quinn and Fawn Brodie and analyzing the cultural implications of the pre-1978 Priesthood ban prior to deciding where to play football.

They don't need to read that stuff. The word on the street about BYU is probably a lot worse than anything you read in these works. How many AA's does BYU have on their teams after all these years? Then if they visit what do they see. Not much diversity, the coach speaking with a general conference intonation totally alien to them.

The Honor Code is a form of silly parochialism.

The scary thing is how easy it would be for BYU to solve these problems. A simple statement of disavowal and apology. A simple repeal of the Honor Code accompanied by a statement that BYU will leave it to LDS and non-LDS students alike to live according to the law and their own consciences if not religious beliefs. BYU can still favor LDS for the great mass of its student body; religious affiliated schools often do that and there's nothign wrong with it. The aparatus to ensure conformance with LDS beliefs is in place apart from the university, which shouldn't be involved in that anyway--the wards.

There would be no dishonor in this course. On the contrary. These measures would be the right and honorable thing to do! The problem is actually that BYU keeps doing wrong, counterproductive things and can't escape living in a medieval time capsul.

[CardiacCoug]

They don't need to read that stuff. The word on the street about BYU is probably a lot worse than anything you read in these works. How many AA's does BYU have on their teams after all these years? Then if they visit what do they see. Not much diversity, the coach speaking with a general conference intonation totally alien to them.

The Honor Code is a form of silly parochialism.

The scary thing is how easy it would be for BYU to solve these problems. A simple statement of disavowal and apology. A simple repeal of the Honor Code accompanied by a statement that BYU will leave it to LDS and non-LDS students alike to live according to the law and their own consciences if not religious beliefs. BYU can still favor LDS for the great mass of its student body; religious affiliated schools often do that and there's nothign wrong with it. The aparatus to ensure conformance with LDS beliefs is in place apart from the university, which shouldn't be involved in that anyway--the wards.

There would be no dishonor in this course. On the contrary. These measures would be the right and honorable thing to do! The problem is actually that BYU keeps doing wrong, counterproductive things and can't escape living in a medieval time capsul.

I agree that it would be great for all of those things to happen. Maybe over decades those changes would help the football team gradually recruit better, too.

But it's primarily LDS culture and the location of the campus (more than any formal doctrine or historical policies) that are responsible for the low percentage of AAs who are willing to come to BYU.

[TripletDaddy]

I agree that it would be great for all of those things to happen. Maybe over decades those changes would help the football team gradually recruit better, too.

But it's primarily LDS culture and the location of the campus (more than any formal doctrine or historical policies) that are responsible for the low percentage of AAs who are willing to come to BYU.

this is true. save for athletics, the U is basically as white as the Y. There are no masses of ethnic minorities moving to SLC to attend the U.

I am too lazy to look but what is the ethnic breakdown, by percentage, at the U? My guess is that it is about 85-90% white kids. If not more.

[SeattleUte]

this is true. save for athletics, the U is basically as white as the Y. There are no masses of ethnic minorities moving to SLC to attend the U.

I am too lazy to look but what is the ethnic breakdown, by percentage, at the U? My guess is that it is about 85-90% white kids. If not more.

The same is true at a lot of other places including the University of Washington (especially if you don't differentiate between whites and Asians). The fact that virtually the entire football team is LDS says it all about BYU's parochialism. That's what is holding BYU down in every field.

[TripletDaddy]

The same is true at a lot of other places including the University of Washington (especially if you don't differentiate between whites and Asians). The fact that virtually the entire football team is LDS says it all about BYU's parochialism. That's what is holding BYU down in every field.

I think you are wrong. BYU's football program is actually a microchosm of its entire student body population. Apologizing for racism won't increase AA numbers amongst the general student body any more than it will assist in the recruiting of football players.

The U has no LDS racism for which to apologize and yet it remains as ethnically homogenous as the Y.

In general, a university's ethnic composition mirrors that of the community. It is no coincidence that schools in LA, NYC, Chicago are more ethnically diverse than schools in Utah, Nebraska, Kansas, etc.

You are drawing too much of a connection between BYU's whitebread status and LDS doctrine.

[Hazzard]

In SU's mind 16- and 17-year old African American football players are reading the complete works of D. Michael Quinn and Fawn Brodie and analyzing the cultural implications of the pre-1978 Priesthood ban prior to deciding where to play football.

This is the most accurate post I have seen in this forum.

[SeattleUte]

I think you are wrong. BYU's football program is actually a microchosm of its entire student body population. Apologizing for racism won't increase AA numbers amongst the general student body any more than it will assist in the recruiting of football players.

The U has no LDS racism for which to apologize and yet it remains as ethnically homogenous as the Y.

In general, a university's ethnic composition mirrors that of the community. It is no coincidence that schools in LA, NYC, Chicago are more ethnically diverse than schools in Utah, Nebraska, Kansas, etc.

You are drawing too much of a connection between BYU's whitebread status and LDS doctrine.

Then Utah's football team is not a microcosm? I see lots of AA's on Utah's football and basketball teams.

[TripletDaddy]

Then Utah's football team is not a microcosm? I see lots of AA's on Utah's football and basketball teams.

of course it isn't.

what percentage of Utah's student body is black (not counting the sports)?

And then counting the sports? even with the sports, the number is tiny.

The U is not racially diverse. it is the same level of whitebread homogeneity as BYU. It is only slightly greater in terms of religious diversity, but not even by that much.

[TripletDaddy]

Then Utah's football team is not a microcosm? I see lots of AA's on Utah's football and basketball teams.

You once posted a link to a relative's blog...this relative was a Ute fan. Many of her pics were at Ute football games, activities, and tailgates. everyone in the pic was a white mormon. speaks volumes.

[creekster]

The U is not racially diverse. it is the same level of whitebread homogeneity as BYU. It is only slightly greater in terms of religious diversity, but not even by that much.

Probably only if you count "inactive" as diveristy.

[RobinFinderson]

Never mind the fact that none of these kids were even considered to be conceived in 1978.

SU is being SU.

Just so you know, from what I can tell (and this only comes up when for some reason my past Mormonism comes up, usually the result of having to claim BYU as my alma mater), a lot of black folks in South Central think that Mormonism is a racist religion. That is the word on the street.

[il Padrino Ute]

Just so you know, from what I can tell (and this only comes up when for some reason my past Mormonism comes up, usually the result of having to claim BYU as my alma mater), a lot of black folks in South Central think that Mormonism is a racist religion. That is the word on the street.

I understand that. But that wasn't SU's point. He as just adding a gratutis shot at the Mormon Church.

[RobinFinderson]

I understand that. But that wasn't SU's point. He as just adding a gratutis shot at the Mormon Church.

Well his shot is that the perception of racism might cause some potential black recruits to think twice, right? I think he is right, though I agree with others that a public apology might not help things very much.