Big 10 expansion talk heating up

[TripletDaddy]

I agree they should be more honest. But why not BYU start the honest exchange? It might be quite disarming if BYU said, "Look, we know the real problem here, we want to put your mind at ease. First, about that racist past, we really are sorry about that, it was wrong..." and so on.

Remember, in the past Pac 10 schools have actually boycotted BYU for various reasons and in various contexts.

Well, I think the Church should do that irrespective of potential athletic affiliations.

What a bitter coincidence that institutional racism may be one of the very things that prevents BYU from participating at the highest tier of athletics, populated in large part by AAs.....what goes around comes around, I suppose.

This whole thing would be easier if it were revealed that BYU is not worthy to be a part of the Pac 10 at this point in time. All the Pac 10 fans could claim that they were always opposed to the exclusion of BYU and that when BYU was finally admitted to the Pac 10, many people pulled off to the side of the road and cried.

[SCcoug]

Then this week, the PAC 10 commish again said that they were considering expansion - and again singled out Utah and Colorado as the types of schools they're looking at.

So Indy, there defintiely IS something different happening right now. The discussion has moved from "No" to "Perhaps Utah and Colorado." That's a huge change...

Could you link to where the PAC 10 commish says they are looking at perhaps Utah and Colorado? On google news a search for PAC 10 Utah comes up with 7 articles, 3 from Bleacher report, 2 from a UofU and BYU fan blog, and a USA Today "article" that is using ABC 4 as the source.

I'm not saying it won't happen but right now no news outlets are reporting the PAC 10 is looking at UofU/CU .

[LA Ute]

You still haven't figured out what bigotry means.

From Merriam-Webster's online dictionary:

Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

[TripletDaddy]

From Merriam-Webster's online dictionary:

Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

The Pac 10 doesn't hate mormons. It loves Mormons. You have no idea how much time is spent amongst the inner leadership of the Pac 10, struggling with this decision. how they wish they could simply change things! For now, the Pac 10 invites all Mormons to attend as many Pac 10 games as they desire. They will always be welcome, obviously. Also, the Pac 10 requests that Mormons refrain from owning Cadillacs because no WAY they can afford to pay for those things!

[LA Ute]

The Pac 10 doesn't hate mormons. It loves Mormons. You have no idea how much time is spent amongst the inner leadership of the Pac 10, struggling with this decision. how they wish they could simply change things! For now, the Pac 10 invites all Mormons to attend as many Pac 10 games as they desire. They will always be welcome, obviously. Also, the Pac 10 requests that Mormons refrain from owning Cadillacs because no WAY they can afford to pay for those things!

I was just trying to help SU out; he seems eager to teach the meaning of bigotry.

[John McClain]

Funny how no one talks about the one thing that drives college athletic alignment - TV markets. And by that I mean how many TV sets will tune to a game between two teams, not how many people may live in a geographic region where a school is located. So on this basis, for example, TCU is not a huge attraction to the Big 12 because they will not add TV viewers to weekly games; they already own the Dallas / Forth Worth market. If the P10 were to take Utah, they would get additional TV sets watching their games from the SLC market, but not on a nationwide basis. BYU would still be a better get for both the SLC market and the national market. However, I don't think either BYU or Utah's effect on increased TV market is going to justify the P10 diluting their BCS money. Getting the Denver market through CU would definitely justify adding CU to the lineup however. If they then thought they had to go to a twelfth team, I question, from a TV revenue standpoint, why Utah is more attractive than BYU. But, stupidity rears it ugly head in college athletics all the time, so who knows?

[SeattleUte]

The Pac 10 doesn't hate mormons. It loves Mormons. You have no idea how much time is spent amongst the inner leadership of the Pac 10, struggling with this decision. how they wish they could simply change things! For now, the Pac 10 invites all Mormons to attend as many Pac 10 games as they desire. They will always be welcome, obviously. Also, the Pac 10 requests that Mormons refrain from owning Cadillacs because no WAY they can afford to pay for those things!

lol

[SeattleUte]

Funny how no one talks about the one thing that drives college athletic alignment - TV markets. And by that I mean how many TV sets will tune to a game between two teams, not how many people may live in a geographic region where a school is located. So on this basis, for example, TCU is not a huge attraction to the Big 12 because they will not add TV viewers to weekly games; they already own the Dallas / Forth Worth market. If the P10 were to take Utah, they would get additional TV sets watching their games from the SLC market, but not on a nationwide basis. BYU would still be a better get for both the SLC market and the national market. However, I don't think either BYU or Utah's effect on increased TV market is going to justify the P10 diluting their BCS money. Getting the Denver market through CU would definitely justify adding CU to the lineup however. If they then thought they had to go to a twelfth team, I question, from a TV revenue standpoint, why Utah is more attractive than BYU. But, stupidity rears it ugly head in college athletics all the time, so who knows?

There are far more weighty concerns than TV alignment. But I'd expect such a superficial and vacuous assessment from you. You are a Utah grad who roots for BYU and hates your alma mater.

[SoCalCoug]

I can't believe this thread has 247 replies. There always appears to be a compelling reason why expansion/realignment is imminent and why BYU and/or Utah will be a part of it and it never gets close to happening.

Yawn.

If you worked for CTU, you'd understand that increased chatter is evidence of imminent nuclear threats to the US. Haven't you learned anything from 24?

[BoylenOver]

I can't believe this thread has 247 replies. There always appears to be a compelling reason why expansion/realignment is imminent and why BYU and/or Utah will be a part of it and it never gets close to happening.

Yawn.

But there are articles citing unnamed sources that the PAC-10 will discuss the possibility of expansion!

[LA Ute]

But there are articles citing unnamed sources that the PAC-10 will discuss the possibility of expansion!

I remember a sacrament meeting talk in the mid-80s in which we were told that BYU was going to join the PAC-10 soon and that it was all part of President Kimball's grand plan for BYU athletics.

[YOhio]

I remember a sacrament meeting talk in the mid-80s in which we were told that BYU was going to join the PAC-10 soon and that it was all part of President Kimball's grand plan for BYU athletics.

Sometimes the Lord works on a different time table. Of all people, President Kimball would know.

[Guest]

Nothing really new here, but these are quotes from today's PAC-10 concall..


Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott

"Realistically, if we are going to consider this [expansion] in the forseeable future, it really is in the next 12 months,'' he said.

any new entry would have to be the proper fit "academically and culturally''

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...k_is_abso.html


edit: I see him saying, if the PAC-10 is going to expand, it will have to be done in the next 12 months, or it will be off the table for an extended period of time (like a decade).

[PaloAltoCougar]

"We can't accept BYU's no Sunday play policy" is a euphamism for "BYU scares us because it's too religious; it gives us the heebeejeebees and always has; we can't deal with clerics spouting the GC intonation calling themselves university presidents, trustees, athletic directors, and football coaches. There is also a little problem with the LDS Church's assassination of gay marriage in California and the racist past that has not been addressed. Sorry, just being honest. We wouldn't feel comfortable with BYU in our conference. No Sunday play, like no research, is more a metaphore than a real problem. It's cultural stupid."

Of course, they would never be so honest.

I've long held these same views, although I wish they were false. Both the research institution argument and the no-Sunday play problem are fig leaves. Based on objective criteria, BYU's student body is superior to at least half those of the PAC-10, as are its professional schools. But for the Church ties (and that's a leviathan "but for"), BYU's academics wouldn't be an issue. Similarly, Sunday play is not a major issue in the PAC-10 and would require only minor schedule tweaking.

The Church has always prided itself on being "a peculiar people." While certainly defensible, even laudable, such peculiarity is repellent to many poobahs of the PAC-10. That's the conference's loss as BYU would raise the average for academic and athletic performance in the PAC 10 and, as noted by a couple of conference AD's in the past, would bring greater than average numbers of fans when traveling to other schools' stadia and arenas.

[byu71]

I've long held these same views, although I wish they were false. Both the research institution argument and the no-Sunday play problem are fig leaves. Based on objective criteria, BYU's student body is superior to at least half those of the PAC-10, as are its professional schools. But for the Church ties (and that's a leviathan "but for"), BYU's academics wouldn't be an issue. Similarly, Sunday play is not a major issue in the PAC-10 and would require only minor schedule tweaking.

The Church has always prided itself on being "a peculiar people." While certainly defensible, even laudable, such peculiarity is repellent to many poobahs of the PAC-10. That's the conference's loss as BYU would raise the average for academic and athletic performance in the PAC 10 and, as noted by a couple of conference AD's in the past, would bring greater than average numbers of fans when traveling to other schools' stadia and arenas.

Intersting dilema. Academia and culture vs money. My bet is on money.