Ranking BYU QB's

[jay santos]

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1423

Repost from Cougarguard.

As an update to this, Beck obviously turned in an amazing senior season that vaults him into Tier 2, let's say #7. Where does Hall fit in?
__________________________________________________ ___________


Here I rank the 19 BYU QB’s who have been “the man” for at least one season going back 20 years. I’ll categorize by Tier 1,2,3,4 (the greats, the almost greats, the goods, the not so goods).

The criteria: pass efficiency, winning percentage, scoring offense (I had this from ’79 on and was lazy and didn’t get the pre ’79 numbers).

How to handle longevity stats as criteria…I used longevity as a criteria only in the sense that two great seasons counts as better than one and three greater than two. But I didn’t count any career total stats. No one believes Timmy Chang (career yardage leader) is the best QB in NCAA history, and he probably wouldn’t be in the top 100 list.


Tier 1, the greats

1. Jim McMahon: Career PER: 157, seasons of 177, 155. Scoring offense rankings: #1, #1. Record: 23-3.

2. Ty Detmer: Career PER: 163, seasons of 138, 176, 156, 169. Scoring offense rankings: #13, #4, #2, #11. Record: 37-13-2.

3. Steve Young: Career PER: 150, seasons of 140, 169. Scoring offense rankings: #7, #2. Record: 19-5.

4. Steve Sarkisian: Career PER: 162, seasons of 150, 174. Scoring offense rankings: #36, #5. Record: 21-5.


Tier 2, the almost greats

5. Robbie Bosco: Career PER: 149, seasons of 152, 146. Scoring offense rankings: #2, #7. Record: 24-3.

6. Brandon Doman: Career PER: 152, senior season: 160. Scoring offense ranking: #1. Record: 14-2.

7. Gifford Nielsen: Career PER: 145, seasons of 140, 143, 156. Scoring offense rankings: ?. Record: 24-10.

8. John Walsh: Career PER: 148, seasons of 156, 143. Scoring offense rankings: #12, #26. Record: 16-9.


Tier 3, the goods

9. Marc Wilson: Career PER: 137, seasons of 148, 106, 147. Scoring offense rankings: ?,?,#1. Record 29-7.

10. Ryan Hancock: Career PER: 145, season 145. Scoring offense rankings: #16. Record 8-5.

11. Gary Sheide: Career PER: 139, seasons of 144, 134. Scoring offense rankings: ?. Record: 12-10-1.

12. Kevin Feterik: Career PER: 140, seasons of 144, 140, 139. Scoring offense rankings: #68, #37, #28. Record 23-14.


Tier 4, the not so goods

13. Sean Covey: Career PER: 131, seasons of 129, 130. Scoring offense rankings: #22,#13. Record 18-8.

14. Steve Lindsley: Career PER: 130, season 130. Scoring offense rankings: #39. Record: 8-5.

15. Charlie Peterson: Career PER: 126, season 114. Scoring offense rankings: #73. Record 3-4.

16. Bob Jensen: Career PER: 118, season 117. Scoring offense rankings: #22. Record 9-4.

17. Matt Berry: Career PER: 117, seasons of 121, 112. Scoring offense rankings: #87, #109. Record 5-9

18. Bret Engemann: Career PER: 109, seasons of 108, 109. Scoring offense rankings: #73, #87. Record 4-5.


Incomplete

John Beck: Career PER: 130, seasons of 129, 137. Scoring offense rankings: #67, #24. Record: 12-14.

The big question is where does Beck fit in? He has a chance to finish #2 in all time career passing yardage, so many will be tempted to put him in at the top when you make this list. But he also has a chance to finish #1 in career pass attempts, so high on the yardage list is a given.

Where does Beck fit in with the rest of these guys based on stats that don’t take longevity into consideration? If he never plays another game as a Cougar, I’d put him somewhere in the #12-#14 range. Obviously, he has a senior season left that could be very special that could put him much higher, with an outside chance to move into Tier 2.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

John Beck was not better than John Walsh. I would say that Beck was the best of the teir 3 group, but I would be hard pressed to put him higher than that. He played 3 games, one against an Oregon team that didn't want to be there, that made his career. Prior to that the best thing that could be said about Beck was that he was great at leading BYU to FG attempts.

[smokymountainrain]

John Beck was not better than John Walsh. I would say that Beck was the best of the teir 3 group, but I would be hard pressed to put him higher than that. He played 3 games, one against an Oregon team that didn't want to be there, that made his career. Prior to that the best thing that could be said about Beck was that he was great at leading BYU to FG attempts.

I agree with this. And Hall, if he finishes this season with a PER in the 170 range this year and a 33-6 career record, is in the bottom of Tier 1... or top of Tier 2 if he goes 10-2 or worse again this year.

[cowboy]

John Beck was not better than John Walsh. I would say that Beck was the best of the teir 3 group, but I would be hard pressed to put him higher than that. He played 3 games, one against an Oregon team that didn't want to be there, that made his career. Prior to that the best thing that could be said about Beck was that he was great at leading BYU to FG attempts.

I agree. The bigger question in my mind is where to put Hall. I say top of 3 or bottom of 2, because as good as his numbers are, he hasn't proven to me that he performs as well under pressure as the rest of the greats and almost greats.

Also, I think Hancock should be ranked higher.

[Indy Coug]

Beck had the toughest SOS of any multi-year starting QB and played on 2 (3 if you include 2003) of the worst BYU teams in the last 35 years. I think that has to be taken into account.

[smokymountainrain]

Also, I think Hancock should be ranked higher.

Amen. Despite the fact that it can't be supported by wins and losses or stats, the kid was a friggin' stud and doesn't deserve to have his name listed with the Feterik's of the world.

[SoCalCoug]

I put Beck at # 6 - I think he was better than Doman.

I think you've got Wilson and Nielsen too low - you have to take into how far the passing game has developed since they played, and how much more efficient it seems to be today - in other words, how much easier it is to get gaudy numbers. For instance, Wilson led the nation in total offense his senior year and was a consensus All-American. In his context, he was a top-tier QB. I think you put him at the top of the second tier, despite the fact his numbers aren't as great as some.

I would put Nielsen at the bottom of the second tier - he still was a second-team All American.

[SoCalCoug]

Isn't Steve Young the career pass efficiency leader in the NFL? His PER in college wasn't spectacular. Isn't it funny how that works out sometimes?

[SoCalCoug]

I put Beck at # 6 - I think he was better than Doman.

I think you've got Wilson and Nielsen too low - you have to take into how far the passing game has developed since they played, and how much more efficient it seems to be today - in other words, how much easier it is to get gaudy numbers. For instance, Wilson led the nation in total offense his senior year and was a consensus All-American. In his context, he was a top-tier QB. I think you put him at the top of the second tier, despite the fact his numbers aren't as great as some.

I would put Nielsen at the bottom of the second tier - he still was a second-team All American.

I take some of this back. Nielsen is where he should be (I mistook him for Sheide, who I believe is about where I would put him).

[jay santos]

Beck had the toughest SOS of any multi-year starting QB and played on 2 (3 if you include 2003) of the worst BYU teams in the last 35 years. I think that has to be taken into account.

Plus he played for the worst coach.

*rimshot*

[jay santos]

Isn't Steve Young the career pass efficiency leader in the NFL? His PER in college wasn't spectacular. Isn't it funny how that works out sometimes?

There's been some PER inflation over the years. I'm pulling this out of my butt, but I think 150-160 would be Heisman numbers 30 years ago, while it just puts you in the top 20 nowadays.

[Goatnapper'96]

John Beck was not better than John Walsh. I would say that Beck was the best of the teir 3 group, but I would be hard pressed to put him higher than that. He played 3 games, one against an Oregon team that didn't want to be there, that made his career. Prior to that the best thing that could be said about Beck was that he was great at leading BYU to FG attempts.

Beck was an interesting qb. Physically he was as gifted as just about any of them. For a long list of reasons, many of which were a long way out of Beck's control, it took him a long time to reach that potential. I think if the kid could have just beat Utah his junior year folks would feel much better about him.

Saying that, other than than two shitty quarters against Utah he was as good as any BYU qb from that TCU game on. I could care less about the competition, no BYU qb played against good competiton regularly. From my own eyes Beck was as good as any of them when he finally put it all together.

Over a career, I would put Beck in tier 2. He finished well.

If Hall wins the rest of his regular season games he is a tier 1 BYU qb, IMO.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Beck was an interesting qb. Physically he was as gifted as just about any of them. For a long list of reasons, many of which were a long way out of Beck's control, it took him a long time to reach that potential. I think if the kid could have just beat Utah his junior year folks would feel much better about him.

Saying that, other than than two shitty quarters against Utah he was as good as any BYU qb from that TCU game on. I could care less about the competition, no BYU qb played against good competiton regularly. From my own eyes Beck was as good as any of them when he finally put it all together.

Over a career, I would put Beck in tier 2. He finished well.

That is a fair argument. I still would put him behind Walsh, but perhaps they could both be the bottom end of teir 2.

I freely admit to having a man crush on Walsh, I think he was so maligned by BYU fans for no reason other than his back up shared a last name and some DNA with Steve Young.

[JohnnyLingo]

I think if the kid could have just beat Utah his junior year folks would feel much better about him.

27-47 for 309 yards, two TD's and no interceptions. BYU scored 34 points.

Meanwhile, the defense gave up 41 points to a Utah team playing a backup QB who had never started a game.

In 2006, Beck went 28-43 for 375 yards and 4 TD's with no interceptions. BYU scored 33 points.

But the defense gave up only 31 this time around, and people act like Beck played a significantly better game. Sure, 75 more yards and two more TD's is impressive, but it's not like he sucked in 2005.

Football is a team sport, and it's hard, if not impossible, to assign blame correctly after a loss.

[Non Sequitur]

No way was Marc Wilson a tier 3 QB. He lasted almost 10 years in the NFL, and even started some. In college he was third in voting for the Heisman and was a consensus All-American. It's an insult to put him in the same category as Kevin Feterik.