I was hoping I'd miss Hall after this season.

[JohnnyLingo]

The nature of football as a team sport makes any discussion re: the relative skill of quarterbacks very complicated.

Austin Collie is an NFL-caliber wide receiver.

Dennis Pitta is an NFL-caliber tight end.

Harvey Unga is a great running back, maybe NFL-caliber.

Does Max Hall make them look better than they are? Or do they make Max Hall look better than he is?

Or is it a symbiotic relationship, with all parties benefiting equally?

I don't think these questions can be answered definitely, and these are only a few of the many factors involved in the "how good is this quarterback?" discussion.

[woot]

I'm mostly with TD on this one, as Max has had waaay too much success to be seen as anything less than great for BYU. However, I do think expectations have risen, and rightly so. Why is it that BYU can't do what Utah and BSU (and even Hawaii) have done? BYU's program is better than those schools', and this year should have been our time to finally break into the BCS, given the talent we have and the fortunate outcome against OU.

BYU's coaching staff is really confusing to me. Anae has been better this season after refusing for so long to do anything to take pressure off the QB, but now the defensive play calling is becoming more and more vanilla, and talent is being underutilized. I do think the defense played well last night, with much of USU's success coming from turnovers. I love how they mostly stopped a running QB, which I didn't think they had in them. Hopefully those schemes will come in handy later this season. I'm still hopeful for this season, but I just don't know if I see this team being great this year.

[TripletDaddy]

I'm mostly with TD on this one, as Max has had waaay too much success to be seen as anything less than great for BYU. However, I do think expectations have risen, and rightly so. Why is it that BYU can't do what Utah and BSU (and even Hawaii) have done? BYU's program is better than those schools', and this year should have been our time to finally break into the BCS, given the talent we have and the fortunate outcome against OU.

BYU's coaching staff is really confusing to me. Anae has been better this season after refusing for so long to do anything to take pressure off the QB, but now the defensive play calling is becoming more and more vanilla, and talent is being underutilized. I do think the defense played well last night, with much of USU's success coming from turnovers. I love how they mostly stopped a running QB, which I didn't think they had in them. Hopefully those schemes will come in handy later this season. I'm still hopeful for this season, but I just don't know if I see this team being great this year.

This is what I don't get, though. When, exactly, was BYU ever "great" without being lucky in the process? The Crowton arrival when we fired off all those consecutive wins....there was luck involved in those games. I can't recall a single season....not even the Sarkisian 14-1 year, when we dominated every game on both sides of the ball. The win against aTm required a miracle catch by K.O.

BYU fans confuse me because when they gripe, they make it sound as though there was ever an era in which we were dominating defensively and offensively throughout the season.

For as long as I have been watching and attending BYU games (20-25 or so years now? wow....) we have always been frustrating and inconsistent. Why is this year any different?

[CJF]

Max Hall is likely on his way to another crappy 10-win season. We won again last night by more than 20 points.

You guys are out of your minds. Maybe Max would play better if the fans were not so crappy. Dead silent in the stadium again last night. Embarrassing.

When will be the next time we have a team that wins 10 games several seasons in a row?

I think back to the conversation we had as we left the Vegas Bowl last year. I don't hate Hall. I do appreciate what he has accomplished while at BYU. He hasn't improved though. He is the same player he was as a sophmore. He has limited physical tools. What makes him good is that he has much better talent around him than just about any QB BYU has ever had. Especially the skill positions. They make him look good. He is gutsy, he is a good leader, he is tough. All great qualities. But he's not the senior leader I was hoping to see this year. I hope I'm wrong. I hope he flips the light switch and just dominates the rest of the season. A 3 year starting QB should be able to do that at home against a defense like USU. He didn't. In fact, some of the things he did last night really causes me some major concern for the rest of the season. The trend has been set.

[Surfah]

Max Hall is a poor man's Favre without the arm in many ways. But he did overthrow a wide open Pitta for a TD. I can live with that. I am more concerned about our fumbling and defense.

[MarkGrace]

I appreciate Hall's success, and he has definitely been incredibly successful, but I still echo all these comments:

But he's not the senior leader I was hoping to see this year. I hope I'm wrong. I hope he flips the light switch and just dominates the rest of the season. A 3 year starting QB should be able to do that at home against a defense like USU. He didn't. In fact, some of the things he did last night really causes me some major concern for the rest of the season. The trend has been set.

As a Sr. and 3 year starter, I was just expecting more than what we've seen so far.

[JohnnyLingo]

I don't hate Hall. I do appreciate what he has accomplished while at BYU. He hasn't improved though. He is the same player he was as a sophmore. He has limited physical tools. What makes him good is that he has much better talent around him than just about any QB BYU has ever had. Especially the skill positions. They make him look good. He is gutsy, he is a good leader, he is tough. All great qualities. But he's not the senior leader I was hoping to see this year. I hope I'm wrong. I hope he flips the light switch and just dominates the rest of the season. A 3 year starting QB should be able to do that at home against a defense like USU. He didn't. In fact, some of the things he did last night really causes me some major concern for the rest of the season. The trend has been set.

My thoughts exactly. If Hall plays out of his mind well against TCU and Utah this year (and whoever we play in the bowl) I'll eat my crow and be glad for it.

[Sizzle]

I guess what I am missing is why the angst for Hall? Because he has thrown a lot of INTs? You get that when you have a risk taker like Hall. And in an offense where there are a lot of reads like BYUs INTs happen. The two from CSU were not Halls fault IMO. On the other hand, the two from USU were 100% on Hall. One he should have pump faked and looked off and it would have been a td and the other was just a bad throw and a great pick. Hopefully he learns from that.

The one complaint I don't understand is how is he not a Senior leader? His game winning drive against Oklahoma was fantastic.

Yes, he has made mistakes. He's not perfect. But he has improved some aspects of his game. Im not paranoid everytimr that he getssackex that he is going to fumble. He's learned when it's okay to run and make a play with his feet. He has a much better feel for the clock and managing a game. And he's a damn good qb for BYU and the MWC. Yes he still stares down receivers at times. Yes he can still Improve. He isn't going to be an NFL guy. But he has won at BYU. A lot.

In the end, like I said before, IMO we have won more games because of Hall and his play than we have lost.

[cougjunkie]

I have been the leader of the Max Hall defenders club for three years, in fact I went as far to say last year that he was better than John Beck. I think he has a lot of characteristics that are crucial for a QB, but I agree with the others that he still makes some rookie mistakes. Granted last night I heard Dennis Pitta say that he can think of 4 or 5 of Halls ints that were not his fault this year, and he included the second one last night to Ashworth, saying that its the receivers job to win those battles.

[Sizzle]

I have been the leader of the Max Hall defenders club for three years, in fact I went as far to say last year that he was better than John Beck. I think he has a lot of characteristics that are crucial for a QB, but I agree with the others that he still makes some rookie mistakes. Granted last night I heard Dennis Pitta say that he can think of 4 or 5 of Halls ints that were not his fault this year, and he included the second one last night to Ashworth, saying that its the receivers job to win those battles.

2 against CSU (unga ran wrong option route, jacobsen stopped)
2 against FSU (PI on the George pick, ball went through Di Luigi hands)

I don't remember the Tulane or OU ones but I would put the two on Hall last night. Although on the second the DB made a great catch.

[TripletDaddy]

I think back to the conversation we had as we left the Vegas Bowl last year. I don't hate Hall. I do appreciate what he has accomplished while at BYU. He hasn't improved though. He is the same player he was as a sophmore. He has limited physical tools. What makes him good is that he has much better talent around him than just about any QB BYU has ever had. Especially the skill positions. They make him look good. He is gutsy, he is a good leader, he is tough. All great qualities. But he's not the senior leader I was hoping to see this year. I hope I'm wrong. I hope he flips the light switch and just dominates the rest of the season. A 3 year starting QB should be able to do that at home against a defense like USU. He didn't. In fact, some of the things he did last night really causes me some major concern for the rest of the season. The trend has been set.

I can see that. My one gripe about Max is his penchant for INTs. As sizzle pointed out.

But ultimately, Hall makes up for his INTs by making other completions. It does seem that Max will forever be plagued by his desire to lock into his receiver. So this means he probably wont have a career on Sundays. But on Saturdays, the guy is pretty good. I am not sure what BYU fans are pining for. When did we ever have it much better that what we have now, esp over such a long perdiod of time? Once he leaves, I don't think we will see the same kind of 10-win success that we have had with Max under center, at least not for awhile.

I guess we will have to see how the season plays out. Let's see how he performs against TCU and Utah. And in the bowl.

[CJF]

I guess we will have to see how the season plays out. Let's see how he performs against TCU and Utah. And in the bowl.

This I agree with. If he goes 3-0 in those games I will be thrilled and gladly proclaim that I was wrong. Watching Hall last night I fear BYU may go 1-2 in those games. Again, I hope I'm dead wrong. I'd much rather BYU be great than me be right.

[Sizzle]

This I agree with. If he goes 3-0 in those games I will be thrilled and gladly proclaim that I was wrong. Watching Hall last night I fear BYU may go 1-2 in those games. Again, I hope I'm dead wrong. I'd much rather BYU be great than me be right.

And if BYU goes 1-2 in those games and we end up the season 10-3, that still isn't an awful season. A bit of a disappointment, yeah, but not a bad season. I guess it also depends on how that split happens, if we lose to TCU and Utah and win a crappy bowl game, that is a lot harder to swallow than if BYU loses to an undefeated TCU who goes to a BCS game, beats Utah, and then loses to say a USC in the Las Vegas Bowl (ugh). In that case, it becomes a lot more tolerable (since the Pac-10 will finish Cal-Oregon-UW-Stanford-USC, and Vegas gets #5 Pac-10).

[Surfah]

And if BYU goes 1-2 in those games and we end up the season 10-3, that still isn't an awful season. A bit of a disappointment, yeah, but not a bad season. I guess it also depends on how that split happens, if we lose to TCU and Utah and win a crappy bowl game, that is a lot harder to swallow than if BYU loses to an undefeated TCU who goes to a BCS game, beats Utah, and then loses to say a USC in the Las Vegas Bowl (ugh). In that case, it becomes a lot more tolerable (since the Pac-10 will finish Cal-Oregon-UW-Stanford-USC, and Vegas gets #5 Pac-10).

Or beats TCU then loses the last two. That'd suck too.

[SCcoug]

I remember back in the day when fans in Cougar Stadium were chanting for LaVell to put in Tom Young. lol. My, how quickly we forget.

After Hall's second INT last night the old guy to my right muttered, "Put in Riley."

All great qualities. But he's not the senior leader I was hoping to see this year. I hope I'm wrong. I hope he flips the light switch and just dominates the rest of the season.

How is he not a leader? He seems like he is as good a leader as you can ask for. He had a game winning drive against OU, hasn't had fumble problems this year (the bad snap wasn't his fault,imo), has improved his scrambling/running ability, the offense rallies around him, he's even thrown some great blocks for the running backs. He's not perfect but I guess I'm not expecting perfection given the type of player he is, as Sizzle has pointed out.

hall = feterik

That is just ridiculous.