Lakers

[TripletDaddy]

Kobe is becoming a cheap shot artist. He throws sly elbows. He hit Paul Milsap with two different shots in the Jazz series. He's good at hiding them. You know I hate Kobe. I wouldn't cheer for him if he played for the Jazz. I hate him. He's incredibly talented though and if not the best player in the game the second best. He shouldn't need to go that route.

Now that said, getting Artest ejected and possibly out of his game the rest of the series was brilliant.

Kobe is getting physical. There's no problem with that. They are playing him physical this series, so the team is responding. I think it is long overdue, frankly. I wouldn't mind seeing Gasol or Bynum throw an elbow around here or there or hit someone hard that went in for a layup, but I don't think either of them have it in them.

Barkley and Kenny said it after the game....it's the playoffs. That is what is supposed to happen.

Besides, this is not the first time Scola has drawn the ire of opposing teams. That is what he does. Artest has said that he is physical. So Kobe gets tired of getting muscled. No problem.

You do as much as you can until you get called for it. Look what happened once the refs starting going whistle happy. All of a sudden, everyone calmed down.

I am guessing that there will be lots of whistles early in Game 3, or else there will be a fight next time.

[Surfah]

Kobe is becoming a cheap shot artist. He throws sly elbows. He hit Paul Milsap with two different shots in the Jazz series. He's good at hiding them. You know I hate Kobe. I wouldn't cheer for him if he played for the Jazz. I hate him. He's incredibly talented though and if not the best player in the game the second best. He shouldn't need to go that route.

Now that said, getting Artest ejected and possibly out of his game the rest of the series was brilliant.

Cheap shot? Please. Kobe has been on the receiving end of far more cheap shots than he has doled out. Look at the play Artest got ejected for. Kobe has him boxed out and Artest moves him 5' out of the way. Only after does he get pushed off the block does he retaliate with the elbow. DDD is right, they call the foul once the pushing starts on that play and there is no bow.

Crawford and that crew last night were horrific. Lots of cheap calls on Yao IMO. Chuck Hayes plays Gasol with two hands in his back the entire game with no calls. Battier has yet to get called for his illegal face guarding. On both sides of the ball they were letting the defense ride guys all the way to the hole. Carl Landry has a career game because he shoots bajillion FTs.

I don't mind the physicality, but when you let them bang you have to call it consistently. Kobe's taunting tech was a joke. He was screaming "you can't guard me" all game. Then in the 4th it's a T? I am glad to see the Lakers fight back. About freaking time. I am sure Fish will be suspended for tomorrow's game, and probably deserves it, but nothing made me happier than to see him put Scola on his ass.

[JohnnyLingo]

Kobe is becoming a cheap shot artist. He throws sly elbows. He hit Paul Milsap with two different shots in the Jazz series. He's good at hiding them. You know I hate Kobe. I wouldn't cheer for him if he played for the Jazz. I hate him. He's incredibly talented though and if not the best player in the game the second best. He shouldn't need to go that route.

Now that said, getting Artest ejected and possibly out of his game the rest of the series was brilliant.

Bingo. Kobe is a prick, no matter what image he tries to put out there to the contrary. Throw an elbow at someone's throat, Kobe? Really? And is there any way the NBA admits the refs screwed up on that call?

I also enjoyed how Mr. Classy himself, Derek Fisher, took a running-start, lowered shoulder, extended forearm block at Scola ON DEFENSE. On offense you can maybe get away with it by claiming it was a screen, but on defense he might as well have just punched Scola in the face and been done with it.

I know, he was matching the Rockets' physicality, yada yada, but wow.

[JohnnyLingo]

Battier has yet to get called for his illegal face guarding.

He's been doing that for at least two seasons now. Is it really illegal?

Cheap shot? Please. Kobe has been on the receiving end of far more cheap shots than he has doled out. Look at the play Artest got ejected for. Kobe has him boxed out and Artest moves him 5' out of the way. Only after does he get pushed off the block does he retaliate with the elbow.

I love this argument. Essentially you are saying "Kobe has been the recipient of cheap shots, so he can throw them out and it's okay, so long as he was provoked into it."

Very nice. Of course, you are wholly incapable of ever criticizing the Black Mamba, so your credibility here is pretty much shot. (Much like mine is, as an avowed Kobe hater.)

[MarkGrace]

He's been doing that for at least two seasons now. Is it really illegal?

I have this same question. I've seen the tactic discussed in articles, but it was never suggested that it was illegal.

I've also noticed that other players are picking this up, and it doesn't seem to be an issue with the refs (I'm thinking of Brewer here).

[JohnnyLingo]

I have this same question. I've seen the tactic discussed in articles, but it was never suggested that it was illegal.

I've also noticed that other players are picking this up, and it doesn't seem to be an issue with the refs (I'm thinking of Brewer here).

So this is just Surfah being his typical homer self, complaining about anything that hurts his idol, and labeling it as "illegal", even though there is zero evidence of that.

Got it.

I'm sure Triplet will now call him out for not checking his facts.

[MarkGrace]

So this is just Surfah being his typical homer self, complaining about anything that hurts his idol, and labeling it as "illegal", even though there is zero evidence of that.

Got it.

I'm sure Triplet will now call him out for not checking his facts.

I don't know whether it is legal or not. I'm curious to know the answer as well.

[TripletDaddy]

I have this same question. I've seen the tactic discussed in articles, but it was never suggested that it was illegal.

I've also noticed that other players are picking this up, and it doesn't seem to be an issue with the refs (I'm thinking of Brewer here).

Bavetta was interviewed about this last season. He said that it only becomes illegal once the defender touches the offensive player in the face or on the head....something that happens quite often because your hand is inches away from the head. I don't think they will call it much because the tactic is almost always used when the offensive player is standing still, but I have seen it called in Lakers games, almost always when the defender's hand hits the offensive player's head as he jumps up to take a shot.

Battier is a good defender, at least when he plays the Lakers. Last night's game was an example of refs letting the game go one way and then changing things late in the game. Kobe's throat to the neck was the result of Artest going over his back. No big deal. The whole thing is exaggerated. Watch the replay. Artest isn't even phased. I don't think he even winces once.

Fisher's foul was clearly intentional and a retalliation for Scola being annoying. I would be surprised if Fish were NOT suspended.

It looks like the Rockets took Sloan's advice and decided to be a nasty old fly....because that is exactly what they are doing. They are being tough.

Most of the people complaining vociferously, coincidentally, are Jazz fans/Kobe haters that are mad that the Jazz are golfing this week.

[Surfah]

He's been doing that for at least two seasons now. Is it really illegal?

I love this argument. Essentially you are saying "Kobe has been the recipient of cheap shots, so he can throw them out and it's okay, so long as he was provoked into it."

Very nice. Of course, you are wholly incapable of ever criticizing the Black Mamba, so your credibility here is pretty much shot. (Much like mine is, as an avowed Kobe hater.)

Yes, face guarding like that is illegal. And you're right, Battier has been getting away with it for the last two seasons. I think Charlie Rose wrote an article about it last season. Didn't matter, cause I am sure Battier is sitting on a bucket of ice with some Tucks today because Kobe lit his ass up.

A cheap shot IMO is unprovoked. He's hardly a cheap shot artist. Kobe retaliating isn't a cheap shot. It's tit for tat. I have no problem with players evening the score when the officials don't do it.

I am not incapable of criticizing Kobe. I scream at Kobe while watching games probably more than any player. He annoys the hell out of me at times. I think he makes lots of dumb decisions. Sleeping with the girl in Eagle being one of them. Not working better with Shaq as another. He's not perfect. He's just one of the smartest, most talented basketball players in the world. But he has faults.

[TripletDaddy]

One thing I wish Kobe would have done last night...once Yao came back in the game, their entire offense should have went right at Yao on each possession. He came back in with 4 fouls. Instead, the Lakers settle for jump shots. Pau clearly does not like to draw a ton of contact when he has the ball. And Kobe should have done a better job of forcing Yao to make a play.

In fact, I would say that in the first 2 games, the Lakers are not forcing Yao enough. They did a better job of it in the first half last night, but truthfully, some of those calls on Yao were weak.

[TripletDaddy]

Very nice. Of course, you are wholly incapable of ever criticizing the Black Mamba, so your credibility here is pretty much shot. (Much like mine is, as an avowed Kobe hater.)

If you claim to be biased and to lack credibility, then what are you yammering about?

The Jazz are out and going nowhere. Get over it.

[JohnnyLingo]

Yes, face guarding like that is illegal. And you're right, Battier has been getting away with it for the last two seasons. I think Charlie Rose wrote an article about it last season. Didn't matter, cause I am sure Battier is sitting on a bucket of ice with some Tucks today because Kobe lit his ass up.

A cheap shot IMO is unprovoked. He's hardly a cheap shot artist. Kobe retaliating isn't a cheap shot. It's tit for tat. I have no problem with players evening the score when the officials don't do it.

I am not incapable of criticizing Kobe. I scream at Kobe while watching games probably more than any player. He annoys the hell out of me at times. I think he makes lots of dumb decisions. Sleeping with the girl in Eagle being one of them. Not working better with Shaq as another. He's not perfect. He's just one of the smartest, most talented basketball players in the world. But he has faults.

Great post. I apologize for pegging you as a rabid Kobe-Lover, and your explanation about how you define "cheap shot" is fair enough.

About Kobe lighting Battier up... I don't know that this is so great for the Lakers.

I've just seen the Triangle in too many games to think that the Lakers were "on the right track." They weren't. Kobe was on the right track, nailing impossible shot after impossible shot as Shane Battier played letter-perfect defense save for one possession (a 1/3 screen and roll that he didn't fight through in his usual, A+-manner). Kobe was hot, but the Lakers weren't really running any offense.

And Kobe Bryant, brilliant though he may be, cannot continue to hit fadeaway 20-footers with a hand directly in both of his eyes while moving to his left at, if history is any clue, more than a 34 percent clip. So to expect anything close to his early shooting mark to sustain, would be ridiculous.

Bottom line, Kobe was on fire last night, and now thinks he can hit those shots every night. I don't think he can, and this will translate into another 11-32 night for the Black Mamba, and a Laker loss in Game 3.

Your thoughts?

[MarkGrace]

Here's an excerpt from a blog post I read at Foxsports about face guarding:

Face guarding has been illegal in all levels of basketball since 1913. In the rule books, face guarding is found under “Unsportsmanlike Acts,” and a technical foul is supposed to be assessed for it. Face guarding is explicitly mentioned in the high school rule book, the NCAA rule book, the FIBA rule book, but is somewhat of a grey area in the NBA rule book (eye guarding is not face guarding).

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Tom7/Shane_Battier/30875

The author makes reference in that post to the Rosen article, but all Rosen says is "last time I checked, face guard was illegal." Neither, however, actually cites to a rule from the NBA rulebook. I just checked the entry under "face/eye guarding," an this is how it reads:

Eye guarding (placing a hand in front of the opponent’s eyes when guarding from
the rear) a player who does not have possession of the ball is illegal and an unsportsmanlike technical shall be assessed.

http://www.nba.com/media/rule_book_2006-07.pdf

That's not what Battier is doing, and so I think what DDD said is correct. It's not illegal until contact is made.

[SoCalCoug]

Kobe is becoming a cheap shot artist. He throws sly elbows. He hit Paul Milsap with two different shots in the Jazz series. He's good at hiding them.

Sincerely,

Larry Bird
John Stockton

[TripletDaddy]

Most of the time, the contact just isn't enough to merit a foul call. Once again, since the offensive player is standing still, at best, Battier's hand might graze Kobe's forehead or something. No big deal.

I have seen Kobe jump into the hand (not vs Rockets) to force a foul call. In games like last night when calls are tight, the shooter should be aware and draw the contact when being face guarded. Other than that, not sure why it would be illegal to get close to a player's face but not touch him.

The lakers problem in Games 1 and 2 is not face guarding. It is that their role players are not spreading the floor by hitting wide open shots. They need more consistency from the likes of Sasha, Fisher and Ariza. Odom seemed to get back to form somewhat yesterday, esp in the second half. He had a lousy game 1.