2013-2014 NFL Thread

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I hate Utah as much as the next guy but as Dolphins fan I am forced to embrace several former Utes as they move on to the NFL. On Sunday the Dolphins and Panthers played and the field was covered with former Ute players.

Panthers
Steve Smith
Star Lotulelei
Jordan Gross

Dolphins
Sam Brenner (started at Center and sucked)
RJ Stanford (special teams player and 4th corner didn't get a ton of time)
Koa Misi(waiting for him to make some type of impact for Miami)
Paul Soliai (absolute monster one of the most underrated D-tackles in the NFL)
Derrick Shelby (been a steal for Miami as an undrafted free agent)


Of course the most important player on the field was former BYU cougar John Denney who is a pro-bowl long snapper.

I wonder what everyone who picked before Carolina thinks of Star's heart condition at this point. The Panthers absolutely nailed their last two first rounders.

[Donuthole]

Barnwell sez: DH is right.

The Weather

Did Peyton Manning have a disappointing game? And was it because of the frigid New England weather? I'm going with sorta and probably not.


Manning's numbers — 19-of-36 for 150 yards, two touchdowns, one interception — are unquestionably pedestrian. No arguing that. Of course, there's context that also needs to be applied to any set of quarterback statistics. Manning was playing the vast majority of this game with a lead, meaning he spent most of his time handing off and passing only in obvious situations. That naturally depresses a quarterback's numbers, and the Denver running game was incredible: The Broncos ran the ball 48 times for a whopping 280 yards. When he did throw, the Patriots were able to get consistent pressure on Manning, as left tackle Chris Clark had a truly disappointing performance after his great work against the Chiefs a week ago.


When he needed to come up with a game-tying score, Manning delivered the drive of the night from either team, with a number of throws fit into minuscule windows or delivered on a surprisingly tight rope. That drive even included two consecutive drops from his receivers, who collectively didn't have a great night, either. Demaryius Thomas couldn't escape Talib, Eric Decker was anonymous, and Welker was essentially a non-factor as a wideout in his return to Foxborough, dropping one pass and having another knocked out of his hands. It doesn't excuse Manning's performance, but it qualifies some of the critiques.


The bigger question being asked is whether Manning is materially affected by cold weather. I don't believe that to be true. The stat going around before the game was that Manning was 0-2 in games where the temperature was below 20 degrees at kickoff, which is absurd for reasons beyond the small sample; one of those games was a meaningless 30-7 loss to the Bills in Week 17 of the 2009 season when Manning played only in the first quarter (leaving with the score 7-7) before turning things over to Curtis Painter. His touchdown ratio was 11-to-13 in games played at 32 degrees or under, but using the freezing point is an arbitrary cutoff for determining whether a day is "cold."


You can see Manning's performance as split into 20-degree buckets for yourself here. His numbers look dramatically better if you include his other rate statistics and those games played with a starting temperature between 33 and 40 degrees, which isn't exactly balmy. It's a smaller sample, but none of his statistics suggest there's anything specific about Manning's performance in colder games that stands out as a sign of his weakness there. It's also true that just about every quarterback plays a little worse in cold weather than in warm weather,⁴ so we would expect Manning to be a bit worse. Unless you think there's a meaningful difference in terms of Manning's ability to throw the football between 30 degrees and 35 degrees, the evidence suggesting Manning folds in cold weather is flimsy. If Manning had a bad game Sunday, it was because he had a bad game, not because he can't handle the cold.

[cougjunkie]

I hate Utah as much as the next guy but as Dolphins fan I am forced to embrace several former Utes as they move on to the NFL. On Sunday the Dolphins and Panthers played and the field was covered with former Ute players.

Panthers
Steve Smith
Star Lotulelei
Jordan Gross

Dolphins
Sam Brenner (started at Center and sucked)
RJ Stanford (special teams player and 4th corner didn't get a ton of time)
Koa Misi(waiting for him to make some type of impact for Miami)
Paul Soliai (absolute monster one of the most underrated D-tackles in the NFL)
Derrick Shelby (been a steal for Miami as an undrafted free agent)


Of course the most important player on the field was former BYU cougar John Denney who is a pro-bowl long snapper.

[The_Douger]

I'm not an NFL fan, but I know enough to know Peyton NEVER had the kind of team around him in Indy that Brady enjoyed during his Super Bowl runs.

Well, Manning always had nice offensive pieces around him. Brady's teams early in his career were grinder types that possessed the ball for a long time and played pretty well in cold weather. They shifted to a better offensive team later in his career and haven't gotten it done. Manning has rarely had a good defense on his side, and the years that they did they went to the Super Bowl, going 1-1.

Denver had a great defense last year that choked in the one game. They're pretty good this year, but they're turning in to a MASH unit pretty quickly.

I'd rather lose now to them, and face them in Denver later. Hopefully Denver can finish 5-0 and get homefield thru the playoffs.

[Omaha 680]

The Patriots haven't been able to get it done since the NFL kindly invited them to stop cheating, but the legacy was already there by that point. That said, Brady has a winning record in the playoffs, even if you take away his first three trips when they won the Super Bowl. Manning just seems to always have a hard time against them. The 10-4 record the Patriots enjoy over him certainly isn't all his fault, but he hasn't always stepped up either. I just wanted him to do more later in the game and in overtime and was annoyed they kept handing it off when Knowshon was clearly spent.

I'm not an NFL fan, but I know enough to know Peyton NEVER had the kind of team around him in Indy that Brady enjoyed during his Super Bowl runs.

[The_Douger]

The Patriots haven't been able to get it done since the NFL kindly invited them to stop cheating, but the legacy was already there by that point. That said, Brady has a winning record in the playoffs, even if you take away his first three trips when they won the Super Bowl. Manning just seems to always have a hard time against them. The 10-4 record the Patriots enjoy over him certainly isn't all his fault, but he hasn't always stepped up either. I just wanted him to do more later in the game and in overtime and was annoyed they kept handing it off when Knowshon was clearly spent.

[Donuthole]

Well, said offense shouldn't be getting shut down by a bunch of inexperienced rookies in the second half. He had a poor completion percentage tonight. He had a nice run in the fourth quarter where he went 5/7 or something like that, but some of those floaters to DMT were pretty bad. If he's the QB everyone says he is, he'd take the game over and win it. He had a chance to do that at the end of the game and it didn't get done. He had 2 chances in overtime. I expect more of a HOF QB. I expect the coaching staff to put the game in to his hands more. I've always felt he had the autonomy to do what he wanted out there more than most guys, he's never seemed bound to an offensive coordinator like other QBs, which is why I was surprised he kept handing the ball off.

It's unfortunate, but at some point you are who you are. He's a great player that has outstanding success in the regular season. It's kind of to the point in Denver where he can't do anything besides win the Super Bowl. The nice part is we have five games left and we still control our own destiny.

You can't win them all. Even great QBs have average games. Tom Brady had two chances in OT and did less with them (and the wind) than Manning did with his (into the wind). But Wes Welker blows a punt return and somehow Brady is a hero and Manning is a goat.

Manning kept handing the ball off because his RBs were getting 6 yards per carry. BTW, your description of that great regular season QB who just can't win in the playoffs? That's Brady since 2004.

[The_Douger]

Denver doesn't have that offense without Manning. Beggars can't be choosers. Make up your mind. You are doing a pretty good job of pointing out reasons why that loss wasn't on manning, though. Keep it up.

Well, said offense shouldn't be getting shut down by a bunch of inexperienced rookies in the second half. He had a poor completion percentage tonight. He had a nice run in the fourth quarter where he went 5/7 or something like that, but some of those floaters to DMT were pretty bad. If he's the QB everyone says he is, he'd take the game over and win it. He had a chance to do that at the end of the game and it didn't get done. He had 2 chances in overtime. I expect more of a HOF QB. I expect the coaching staff to put the game in to his hands more. I've always felt he had the autonomy to do what he wanted out there more than most guys, he's never seemed bound to an offensive coordinator like other QBs, which is why I was surprised he kept handing the ball off.

It's unfortunate, but at some point you are who you are. He's a great player that has outstanding success in the regular season. It's kind of to the point in Denver where he can't do anything besides win the Super Bowl. The nice part is we have five games left and we still control our own destiny.

[cougjunkie]

If you want a good laugh follow former BYU basketball player Chris Collinsworth on twitter. During Sunday Night football each week he gets attacked and mistaken for NBC announcer Cris Collinsworth. It is pretty funny.

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[Donuthole]

2013-2014 NFL Thread

The defense needed some bailing out tonight. You knew NE was going to come out swinging in the 2nd half. We ran Moreno too much. The rookie RBs aren't ready. They fumble too much. We got down to the forty in OT and they shouldn't have been running it. Moreno was completely gassed. They should have run play action to get the 20 yards we needed to get a FG attempt to win the game. Instead we ran a guy who had nothing left twice and then tried to complete another third and long. The NE defense is not that great, they are playing a ton of rookies and Manning should have been able to pass on them to win that game. Instead we decided to give a hot RB nearly 40 touches and he was too tired because his backups kept fumbling and couldn't get him a rest.

There's no excuse for losing a game up four scores at halftime, ever. Getting held to 7 points in the second half and overtime was nothing short of ridiculous with the offense Denver has.

Denver doesn't have that offense without Manning. Beggars can't be choosers. Make up your mind. You are doing a pretty good job of pointing out reasons why that loss wasn't on manning, though. Keep it up. Next maybe you can explain how that fumble by Monte Ball--the one that came when Denver was moving the ball in the second half--was Manning's fault. Or the multiple drops by the receivers.

[The_Douger]

The defense needed some bailing out tonight. You knew NE was going to come out swinging in the 2nd half. We ran Moreno too much. The rookie RBs aren't ready. They fumble too much. We got down to the forty in OT and they shouldn't have been running it. Moreno was completely gassed. They should have run play action to get the 20 yards we needed to get a FG attempt to win the game. Instead we ran a guy who had nothing left twice and then tried to complete another third and long. The NE defense is not that great, they are playing a ton of rookies and Manning should have been able to pass on them to win that game. Instead we decided to give a hot RB nearly 40 touches and he was too tired because his backups kept fumbling and couldn't get him a rest.

There's no excuse for losing a game up four scores at halftime, ever. Getting held to 7 points in the second half and overtime was nothing short of ridiculous with the offense Denver has.

[Donuthole]

He walks out with a tie no thanks to him. Look at his numbers. He put together one good drive tonight.

Look at Brady's stats last year vs Denver when NE rushed for 250 yards. Pretty much identical to what Manning did tonight.

You of all people know how playing with a lead can change a QB's stats.

Cromartie going down was huge, as he had pretty much shut Edelman down the entire first half. No coincidence that Edelman went off in the second half.

Manning wasn't his best, but he was good enough to win a tough road game.

[The_Douger]

It doesn't make me mad. It makes you ignorant, though.

Nope.

[Donuthole]

I want a QB that can manage more than one TD drive in the second half of a game they led 24-0 at halftime. Sorry if that makes you mad. I don't think it's that much to ask.

It doesn't make me mad. It makes you ignorant, though.

[cougjunkie]

And yet he walks out of Foxboro with no worse than a tie if Wes Welker doesn't blow that punt.

Also, huge drop by Welker on 3rd and 6. If he catches that, it's 4th and 1 and Denver probably goes for it.

He walks out with a tie no thanks to him. Look at his numbers. He put together one good drive tonight.

Look at his playoff history in cold weather games.

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