You know why I hate soccer?

[falafel]

Wrong analogy. Me not liking the trapezoidal international key would be akin to a Euro not liking what I might do to Americanize the game. That's the whole point. You don't have to copy it exactly.

The only game changer I would make in addition to the cultural stuff (also how do you implement a time out system, how about giving a time out per half to each team and letting them call time out at any break in the action, is it that complicated?), would be the yellow card/red card system. I think it's a travesty of justice that Man U could lose a player in a game due to a fairly common hard foul that was the player's second yellow resulting in a red resulting in playing the game 10 vs 11 for the remainder of a game, completely changing the game, resulting in a goal for Germany to send Man U home. Travesty. Toss the yellow card completely out of the game. Red card = the player's out for the rest of the game but you can sub him and go 11 on 11. Or maybe he sits for 5 minutes and you go 10 on 11 for 5 minutes. Yellow card cumulation to a red card in a tournament like the World Cup? Absolutely ridiculous!

Also, overtime: take two players off the field every 10 minutes.

That's all immediately. I wouldn't mind tinkering to see more goals. That's the biggest problem in the game. An ideal sport has somewhere between 3 and 10 scores per team per game. BB has too many. Soccer too few. Baseball, hockey, football all good. I don't know how to create more scoring, but they tweak American sports all the time to increase or decrease scoring. It can be done with creative minds.

It sounds like it was exactly the right analogy. You can't support americanizing soccer unless you're fine with the euros changing b-ball. If you support it, great. Personally, I think its stupid, but I don't really care b/c the US still has the best basketball league in the world.

My issue with the time out is who gets to call it? Do you have to have possession of the ball to call it, like in b-ball? Football is easy b/c of the downs system. B-ball you can just hold the ball and call it. Soccer's not so simple. Can you call your time out when the opponent has a break away 1 on 1 vs. your keeper? I would hope not. Then when can you call it? Do you have to have possession? you can't just pick up the ball and stop play. The opponent is going to keep coming after you and the ball, even if you are calling time out. Plus, as mentioned, the field is so huge that certainly there would be times when it would be difficult for the ref to see someone signalling for time out. The player might stop, call time, but the opponent doesn't stop and the ref doesn't hear... the opponent steals the ball and scores... It could get very messy. I can't think of a good overall system for implementing a time out.

You may be right about red cards carrying too high of a penalty. I'm not sure I oppose lowering the sanction to just the remainder of the game. I sort of like the negative incentive provided by the fact that you'll play down one man if your player does get a red. I see no problem with the yellows, though. What's wrong with a warning? That seems reasonable, especially since the penalty for a red is so high. I'm not familiar with all the rules of the pro leagues, though. Do yellows carry over to other games? E.g. if you get a yellow in one game and another in a second game, do those two equal a red? I'm not really in favor of that.

You're overtime suggestion interesting.... strange, but interesting. I would certainly open up the option for more scoring, but it would also tire out the players much faster. Besides, it would nullify the penalty kick option, which is one of the best parts of the game!

[falafel]

Wrong.

Two things cause incentive to flop to draw fouls.

1. It's damn hard to score and goals are rare and flopping in the box is sometimes the best way to score. Solution: tweak the game to get more scoring. Implement instant replay to review big calls.

2. Red cards totally change the game. Drawing a foul to cause your opponent to get a red card is as good as getting a goal because you play 11 on 10. Solution: Eliminate the red card and the 11 on 10 as a rule. Implement instant replay and review serious cases to see how flagrant the play really was. Flagrant fouls have the penalty of: kick the guy out and sub him to maintain 11 on 11 or put him in the box for five minutes for a five minute 11 on 10.

Instant replay is not a viable solution. Think of all the stoppages! IMO, that suggestion is just ridiculous.

I keep hearing you say tweak the game for more scoring - but how? Maybe enlarge the goals. That's not a bad idea.

[jay santos]

It sounds like it was exactly the right analogy. You can't support americanizing soccer unless you're fine with the euros changing b-ball. If you support it, great. Personally, I think its stupid, but I don't really care b/c the US still has the best basketball league in the world.

My issue with the time out is who gets to call it? Do you have to have possession of the ball to call it, like in b-ball? Football is easy b/c of the downs system. B-ball you can just hold the ball and call it. Soccer's not so simple. Can you call your time out when the opponent has a break away 1 on 1 vs. your keeper? I would hope not. Then when can you call it? Do you have to have possession? you can't just pick up the ball and stop play. The opponent is going to keep coming after you and the ball, even if you are calling time out. Plus, as mentioned, the field is so huge that certainly there would be times when it would be difficult for the ref to see someone signalling for time out. The player might stop, call time, but the opponent doesn't stop and the ref doesn't hear... the opponent steals the ball and scores... It could get very messy. I can't think of a good overall system for implementing a time out.

You may be right about red cards carrying too high of a penalty. I'm not sure I oppose lowering the sanction to just the remainder of the game. I sort of like the negative incentive provided by the fact that you'll play down one man if your player does get a red. I see no problem with the yellows, though. What's wrong with a warning? That seems reasonable, especially since the penalty for a red is so high. I'm not familiar with all the rules of the pro leagues, though. Do yellows carry over to other games? E.g. if you get a yellow in one game and another in a second game, do those two equal a red? I'm not really in favor of that.

You're overtime suggestion interesting.... strange, but interesting. I would certainly open up the option for more scoring, but it would also tire out the players much faster. Besides, it would nullify the penalty kick option, which is one of the best parts of the game!

For the record, I don't give a crap what other nations do to American games. In fact, I would expect them to localize them all.

for time outs: like every other sport, either on a dead ball or when you have possession. If this issue of having one ref covering a huge field is a problem, then let's get a couple more ref's on the field. Yet another example of soccer being constrained by tradition.

Yellow cards in league play? I don't think they accumulate. I think it's only in tournament play like Champions league or World Cup.

[falafel]

Yes, the sideline officials can call fouls. Actually they can bring it to attention to the main ref by raising their flag and main ref has the right to blow whistle to stop the action or ignore the sideline ref.

Yes, so technically they do not have the option to call fouls.

[falafel]

For the record, I don't give a crap what other nations do to American games. In fact, I would expect them to localize them all.

for time outs: like every other sport, either on a dead ball or when you have possession. If this issue of having one ref covering a huge field is a problem, then let's get a couple more ref's on the field. Yet another example of soccer being constrained by tradition.

Yellow cards in league play? I don't think they accumulate. I think it's only in tournament play like Champions league or World Cup.

I think time outs on a dead ball is probably the only real option. I'm not opposed to that.

This isn't meant to be jerky, but have you ever played soccer in a league? Just curious.

[jay santos]

Instant replay is not a viable solution. Think of all the stoppages! IMO, that suggestion is just ridiculous.

I keep hearing you say tweak the game for more scoring - but how? Maybe enlarge the goals. That's not a bad idea.

How many plays really are game changing plays per game in soccer? No more than a handful. They could do it.

--Enlarge the goals
--Hamper the goalies somehow?
--Make it 9 on 9 instead of 11 on 11.
--Tweak offsides--though I understand the arguments for and against it and I agree it's a lot more complicated than a lot of people realize
--Be more strict about what is allowed on defense as far as hand checking or slide tackling
--Tweak corner kicks or the way they're allowed to be defended

Those are a few ideas. I don't have a great idea but I think there's definitely something you could do to bump up scoring. You could manipulate baseball in a way that scoring is always 1-0 or everyone scores at least 10 runs. It's been managed well.

[jay santos]

I think time outs on a dead ball is probably the only real option. I'm not opposed to that.

This isn't meant to be jerky, but have you ever played soccer in a league? Just curious.

I flirted with high school soccer a little, that's about it. Nothing since. My kids have played competitively, and since my mission I've enjoyed watching international soccer.

And no offense taken. The "I played this sport and you didn't so your opinion doesn't matter" argument doesn't hold any water with me. Basketball's the sport I played the most in my life, and I've learned more about it as a couch potato adult than as a player. I trust a smart geek fan's opinion on football more than a dumb ex jock.

[beelzebabette]

How many plays really are game changing plays per game in soccer? No more than a handful. They could do it.

--Enlarge the goals
--Hamper the goalies somehow?
--Make it 9 on 9 instead of 11 on 11.
--Tweak offsides--though I understand the arguments for and against it and I agree it's a lot more complicated than a lot of people realize
--Be more strict about what is allowed on defense as far as hand checking or slide tackling
--Tweak corner kicks or the way they're allowed to be defended

If goalies were hobbled, I'd probably watch a few more games than I currently do.

[jay santos]

I should say, I love soccer as it is with no changes. And nothing outside of BYU FB and BB rank higher on my sports enjoyment list than the World Cup. It's fantastic.

But there are some annoying things about soccer that could be changed to make it better. And I hate how the soccer purists try to make soccer to be out some sacred thing that can never change.

[hostile]

If goalies were hobbled, I'd probably watch a few more games than I currently do.

[falafel]

I flirted with high school soccer a little, that's about it. Nothing since. My kids have played competitively, and since my mission I've enjoyed watching international soccer.

And no offense taken. The "I played this sport and you didn't so your opinion doesn't matter" argument doesn't hold any water with me. Basketball's the sport I played the most in my life, and I've learned more about it as a couch potato adult than as a player. I trust a smart geek fan's opinion on football more than a dumb ex jock.

I agree that I don't really have any more to add theoretically than a non-soccer player. But a player's experience on the field does have merit re some of your suggestions. For example, the suggestion to reduce the number of players to 9 v. 9 - you'd have a lot more context for making this suggestion if you knew what it felt like to play with 10 team mates vs. 8. Also, in regards to the time out issue, whether its really feasible for the player with the ball to call time out.

Not that this makes a player's opinions superior, just more informed IMO.

[beelzebabette]

Hostile, thank you for the life-size illustration. Those should prove effective.

[jay santos]

I agree that I don't really have any more to add theoretically than a non-soccer player. But a player's experience on the field does have merit re some of your suggestions. For example, the suggestion to reduce the number of players to 9 v. 9 - you'd have a lot more context for making this suggestion if you knew what it felt like to play with 10 team mates vs. 8. Also, in regards to the time out issue, whether its really feasible for the player with the ball to call time out.

Not that this makes a player's opinions superior, just more informed IMO.

Actually the 9 vs 9 idea came from watching that USA Italy game that got down to what was it 10 vs 9, that game had some great action once the field opened up and not so clogged up. and also from how hockey gets high scoring when you take off players.

[Coach McGuirk]

Hostile, thank you for the life-size illustration. Those should prove effective.

I believe a few links should be added in. We want to hamper not render ineffective. Sheesh!

[jay santos]

I agree that I don't really have any more to add theoretically than a non-soccer player. But a player's experience on the field does have merit re some of your suggestions. For example, the suggestion to reduce the number of players to 9 v. 9 - you'd have a lot more context for making this suggestion if you knew what it felt like to play with 10 team mates vs. 8. Also, in regards to the time out issue, whether its really feasible for the player with the ball to call time out.

Not that this makes a player's opinions superior, just more informed IMO.

Player has ball, player dribbling the ball, player motions with his hand for a timeout or yells out TIMEOUT. Nothing too complicated there. But this is the detail stuff I don't really care about. My point is that it's very doable.