The OFFICIAL 2009-2010 NBA season thread!

[JohnnyLingo]

Ariza wouldn't put up those numbers in LA. He's the first option with TMac and Yao out. Artest would have that same line had he stayed in Houston. Now he's the 4th option. When Pau comes back, he'll be the 5th option. The same as what Ariza was and would be.

And that's also why I drafted Ariza and not Artest in the CUF FB league.

I'm not sure what being the third option has to do with shooting percentage.

And you're missing the larger point: you replaced a good role player for a poor role player. So far, it looks like the decision to let Ariza walk and sign Artest was a bad one.

The season is young, though.

[TripletDaddy]

I'm not sure what being the third option has to do with shooting percentage.

And you're missing the larger point: you replaced a good role player for a poor role player. So far, it looks like the decision to let Ariza walk and sign Artest was a bad one.

The season is young, though.

You need to focus less on basketball and focus more on saving the youth in your Sunday School class. You have already done irreparable damage in one instance.

[JohnnyLingo]

Ariza last year in LA (e.g. the same role as Ron Ron this year):

8.9 PPG, 46% FGP, 32% 3P%, 4.3 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.7 SPG

other than Ron Ron's FGP (which will not stay in the 20s)... the two players look nearly identical.

Right, except that Ariza is improving and Artest will never get better than he is right now.

Why does playing in the Lakers system as a third or fourth banana impact your 3-point shooting percentage?

How do their salaries compare?

Ron Ron: 5 yr, $33 million
Ariza: 5 yr, $33.5 million

On paper, it looks like the Lakers broke even if Ron Ron just plays at his current level. I suspect that he'll produce more as he gets used to the Lakers offensive sets.

Right, except Ron Ron is in his 13th season, and again, not getting any younger. His shot selection will probably never improve. He will have less and less ability to defend quicker guards. Meanwhile, Ariza is in his 6th season. He can still improve in these areas.

I agree that Artests stats will improve, but I get the feeling the trade wasn't in the Lakers' best interests.

As I said earlier, it is a long season and I may be disproven.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I felt it was important to note that Lingo is kicking the Lakers' fans asses right now in this thread.

Lakers fans, it's okay to admit that Ariza, at this stage in his career is at least equal to Ron Artest and will be better than Artest on average over the course of the next five years. Ariza was easily your third best player in the postseason and was the second best during several games. He's money, he's versatile and he doesn't have Artest's baggage.

[TripletDaddy]

I felt it was important to note that Lingo is kicking the Lakers' fans asses right now in this thread.

Lakers fans, it's okay to admit that Ariza, at this stage in his career is at least equal to Ron Artest and will be better than Artest on average over the course of the next five years. Ariza was easily your third best player in the postseason and was the second best during several games. He's money, he's versatile and he doesn't have Artest's baggage.

There is nothing to admit here.

Every Laker fan on this board was up front about wanting Ariza back. It was David Lee that didn't want to make it happen, so the Lakers said, "fine, no worries. We will sign Artest." The Lakers offered Artest after Lee rejected the offer that he labeled "insulting." Then curiously wound up accepting an almost identical offer from Houston.

You are acting as though the Lakers and Lakers fans kick Ariza to the curb. Everyone wanted him back and we are all still happy that he is doing well.

Also, Lingo simply cut and pasted his entire post from another blog, so the point isn't even his own. He has a habit of stealing material. His blog has so many CUF resets that you lose count.

[Surfah]

I felt it was important to note that Lingo is kicking the Lakers' fans asses right now in this thread.

Lakers fans, it's okay to admit that Ariza, at this stage in his career is at least equal to Ron Artest and will be better than Artest on average over the course of the next five years. Ariza was easily your third best player in the postseason and was the second best during several games. He's money, he's versatile and he doesn't have Artest's baggage.

Are you kidding me? As DDD noted, nobody here wanted Ariza gone. I would have loved to have had Ariza back. But his agent is a d-bag and he's gone so I'm done with him and jocking the guys we got. I still have love for Ariza. I hope he has a hell of a career and comes back home someday.

I also disagree that Ariza was the 2nd best player during several games. Not better than LO or Pau. He had some big plays and nice games, but he was not as important or better than Kobe, LO, or Pau.

We're a handful of games into the season. Ariza gets to be the man he never would have been in LA and Artest is still feeling things out and where he stands among a team crowded with talent. I like Artest's defense better. He can play 2-4, and most importantly guard 2-4 especially on the block. Ariza played great perimeter D but he could be posted up. Artest's greatest asset will be allowing Kobe to rest on defense by not having to pick up Bron, Pierce, etc.

[JohnnyLingo]

Are you kidding me? As DDD noted, nobody here wanted Ariza gone. I would have loved to have had Ariza back. But his agent is a d-bag and he's gone so I'm done with him and jocking the guys we got. I still have love for Ariza. I hope he has a hell of a career and comes back home someday.

No one is bagging on Laker fans or saying they wanted Ariza gone.

The criticism is directed at the Laker management.

[Surfah]

No one is bagging on Laker fans or saying they wanted Ariza gone.

The criticism is directed at the Laker management.

Your criticism isn't justified. If you don't think the Lakers would have kept Ariza for what the MLE he got in Houston you're crazy. In fact that's what he was offered. David Lee butchered everything. This is well documented. Lee wanted much, much more. The Lakers weren't willing to budge (much). Mitch told Lee, fine, if you think he's worth more go and find a better deal. We know how that worked out.

[JohnnyLingo]

Your criticism isn't justified. If you don't think the Lakers would have kept Ariza for what the MLE he got in Houston you're crazy. In fact that's what he was offered. David Lee butchered everything. This is well documented. Lee wanted much, much more. The Lakers weren't willing to budge (much). Mitch told Lee, fine, if you think he's worth more go and find a better deal. We know how that worked out.

I admittedly did not follow the Ariza in LA Land saga very closely.

If this is how it went down, then I take back my criticism of the Laker management.

[Surfah]

I admittedly did not follow the Ariza in LA Land saga very closely.

If this is how it went down, then I take back my criticism of the Laker management.

It is how it went down. He was offered the same contract Houston gave Ariza. Lee got pissed off and wanted the Lakers to make him a better offer, essentially trying to force the Lakers to bid against themselves. It was a juvenile and backwards move (just one of many, the worst was talking bad about Lakers brass publicly right off the bat). Mitch told Lee the MLE was on the table for him to take but that they'd treat Ariza like a RFE. He was told to find a better deal and Mitch said they would do their best to match. But he didn't get any better offers. David Lee was blasted by everyone, not just Lakers fans, for botching things the way he did.

If you care to wallow through the Lakers thread, there are about 2-3 pages I think alone, dedicated to this saga with plenty of links about David Lee's handling of Ariza. Or just google search Trevor Ariza and David Lee together and see what turns up.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

It is how it went down. He was offered the same contract Houston gave Ariza. Lee got pissed off and wanted the Lakers to make him a better offer, essentially trying to force the Lakers to bid against themselves. It was a juvenile and backwards move (just one of many, the worst was talking bad about Lakers brass publicly right off the bat). Mitch told Lee the MLE was on the table for him to take but that they'd treat Ariza like a RFE. He was told to find a better deal and Mitch said they would do their best to match. But he didn't get any better offers. David Lee was blasted by everyone, not just Lakers fans, for botching things the way he did.

If you care to wallow through the Lakers thread, there are about 2-3 pages I think alone, dedicated to this saga with plenty of links about David Lee's handling of Ariza. Or just google search Trevor Ariza and David Lee together and see what turns up.

Actually, I do remember some of this but didn't follow everything exactly. I also know that Lakers' fans creamed their pants over Ariza last year, you guys loved him.

Even though I was trying to tease a little bit, my basic point is that Ariza is at least Artest's equal if not the better player at this point. For all the shit Kupchak took for trading Shaq, he's turned out to be, IMO, a very good GM.

I stand by my assertion that Ariza was the second best player during some of the postseason games, but overall was the third best. Odom simply didn't show up for many of the games. Ariza played really good perimeter defense and scored in the clutch at times when Kobe was the only other guy on the team capable of doing so.

[Surfah]

Actually, I do remember some of this but didn't follow everything exactly. I also know that Lakers' fans creamed their pants over Ariza last year, you guys loved him.

I still love him. I loved when we signed him. And I hate that we couldn't keep him for the MLE. He was absolutely huge at times, particularly with his two clutch steals on inbounds plays (which he only makes with the pressure LO puts on the passer - a brilliant move by jaX and one that if SVG had employed could have kept Bron from winning that game). But I still don't think he was more valuable than Pau. At times he was the third best player.

But at the same time, he had a career year with a great playoff run. The Lakers had already been burned by Sasha doing the same. So I am not surprised that the Lakers were gun shy, especially with LO still unsigned who was a much bigger priority than Ariza.

The only thing that soured me on the whole situation was Ariza's apathy during negotiations and allowing his idiot agent to negotiate everything. Ariza admitted to having never talked to Laker's brass at all and even commented that he would have signed for the MLE at one point, but said he was never made that offer which is blatantly false. His loyalty to his agent was greater than his loyalty to his hometown and team. That sucks. But he gets to go to Houston, spread his wings, and be the man. And thus far he's taking full advantage of that. And since I have him on my FB team, I am stoked.

[MarkGrace]

C's hit 14/20 3pt attempts tonight. Wow.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

C's hit 14/20 3pt attempts tonight. Wow.

The Cs started out something like 20-1 last year, I can't remember. Then they lost to the Lakers on Christmas and the injuries started hitting them. If they get off to a similar start, they need to tell Garnett to take a couple weeks off. After Garnett's back, tell Sheed to do the same thing. The Cs are loaded and nasty, but they're old. If the Finals started today, they'd win it all. Come June, I have no freakin' idea but it'll be a miracle if Pierce, Allen, Garnett and Sheed are healthy.

The nice thing about the blowouts is that they can keep Garnett in under 30 minutes. He only played 23 minutes last night and he's averaging 28 minutes this year.

[MarkGrace]

Phoenix looks surprisingly good. Nash is playing insane ball for 35.