"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

This made me think of the Jazz and a long list of players that got playing time because they were good defenders:

@BeckleyMason 22h
There's a certain kind of player who tries hard but doesn't score, & many, even coaches, just assume those players must be good defenders.

[The_Douger]

What do you guys think that big rigamarole with KOC leaving, then not leaving was all about?

[Eddie]

What do you guys think that big rigamarole with KOC leaving, then not leaving was all about?

I'm buying the easy explanation being thrown around by some of the radio guys.

Essentially - the new guy who came from the Spurs didn't come here as a purely lateral move. I think he is being prepped to take on more responsibility. I don't think KOC is resigning or leaving, but I do think that his overall day-to-day responsibilities are going to be reduced and at some point in the future he will leave. But he could even keep his same title and just have a change of responsibilities.

Sounds like DJ mentioned a change in responsibilities, and some channel 2 chick posted somewhere that he was resigning.

So that's my answer - listening to the radio guys, they are saying that they all knew there were changes coming and that Lindsay would be taking on more responsibility and KOC would be taking a lesser role in things. So none of that was new - until the channel 2 chick interpreted that as KOC leaving.

[MarkGrace]

Donuthole (Las Vegas, Nevada)

Kevin, I was a big fan of both Gordon Hayward and Paul George going into the '10 draft. This year Hayward posted a PER of 16.81 and George 16.84, and their per minute numbers were very similar across the board (though George had a big advantage on the glass). Yet George is an all-star and budding superstar, where Hayward doesn't even make the top 50 in Simmons' trade column (I think George was 18). Is G-Time Hayward underrated?
Kevin Pelton (2:10 PM)

A little bit, but that PER comparison is woefully slanted to Hayward because it doesn't sufficiently give George credit for his All-Defensive-caliber work at that end of the floor. WARP gives a sizable advantage to George on a per-minute basis.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/47893

[Donuthole]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/47893

Appropriation!

[Blueintheface]

That's a valid question, DH, and I think his answer shows just how underrated Gordon really is in NBA circles. I'm not familiar with WARP but IMO he completely fails to take into account just how bad Gordon's teammates are on defense, while George enjoys a scheme and teammates willing to rotate.

That said, this is year 4 for Gordon so it's now or never for him regardless of teammates. Hopefully he truly makes this team his own when camp starts with 6+ new players in a Jazz uniform.

[MarkGrace]

Talking to an NBA front office guy today and he said he thought the market for Millsap might be somewhere around 3 year 21 million deal. The Jazz offered 3 year 24 million dollar deal in the off-season to Millsap that Paul turned down. In this person's mind that is where the rub sits for the Jazz. Would Millsap accept a deal with the Jazz lower than what they offered him in the off-season. This person said no way. He thought Millsap would be willing to take 3-21 from another team but not take it from the Jazz since he was once offered more.

Paul didn't plan carefully enough for the new CBA.

[MarkGrace]

On stepping back to step forward:

Kevin O'Connor has procurred quite a few lottery picks, Gordon hayward is a foundaitonal piece for us. that shows you the vision and value of patientce. and Enes Kanter, that was not a strong draft. we pulled the right guy out of that draft. Kevin's expertise has been superior. will we take a step back? I'm never going to say that because it lowers the bar for the players and coaches.

will we strategically decide ot go young? possibly.

Bring on the Lindsey era!

[Blueintheface]

Paul didn't plan carefully enough for the new CBA.

I seem to remember that Paul's agent is a relative of his. Is that accurate? I will be very interested to see how many players turned down deals during the season only to sign for the same or less in free agency this summer. It might also be interesting to know how many player agents were encouraging their clients to accept/reject the previous offers.

[The_Douger]

I'm in the camp of hoping Millsap leaves. He totally dogged it the last 3 months of the year. Him being petulant and thinking he's more than he is has been a detriment to the team. If I had to choose to keep one between him and Jefferson, I'd keep Jefferson. Millsap is not an NBA starter. He's a sixth guy off the bench who should be spending the majority of his time with the second unit.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Bring on the Lindsey era!

re: the Kanter draft - Looking back at the top 15 in that draft, outside of #1 pick Irving, the only guys I would consider having over Kanter would be Klay Thompson and Kawhi Leonard. But I don't think either of them have showed enough promise to say they definitely would've been better picks than Kanter at this point. I do wish we could know if Utah would've taken Kanter or Williams if they'd landed at #2.

From that quote I like that Lindsey separated the ideas of tanking and pushing the young players to the front of the team. This team finished 9th in the west focusing on its veteran players. They aren't taking a huge step back from there if they let C4 really be the core of the team with some solid additions around them. Unfortunately, that should've happend 12 months ago so they would be in a stronger strategic position to take a big step forward this off-season.

[Blueintheface]

If Jefferson stays that 12 months turns into 48 months.

[UteStar]

I'm in the camp of hoping Millsap leaves. He totally dogged it the last 3 months of the year. Him being petulant and thinking he's more than he is has been a detriment to the team. If I had to choose to keep one between him and Jefferson, I'd keep Jefferson. Millsap is not an NBA starter. He's a sixth guy off the bench who should be spending the majority of his time with the second unit.

The prob with Jefferson is that he will be more expensive and he will take up more of the offense like he always does and he will continue to not play defense. If Lindsey wants to see the young guys improve and get touches, etc., then he won't bring back Jefferson. If Milsap understood his role was 25-30 minutes a game and not be a focus point of the offense, then that would be great. Problem is that is not what he wants to be. For that reason, I would be shocked to see either player on the Jazz roster next year. I think if it was KOC, I would put the odds that Jefferson would be back at greater than 70%. With Lindsey, I can't see Jefferson being back. I guess we'll see.

[Donuthole]

The prob with Jefferson is that he will be more expensive and he will take up more of the offense like he always does and he will continue to not play defense. If Lindsey wants to see the young guys improve and get touches, etc., then he won't bring back Jefferson. If Milsap understood his role was 25-30 minutes a game and not be a focus point of the offense, then that would be great. Problem is that is not what he wants to be. For that reason, I would be shocked to see either player on the Jazz roster next year. I think if it was KOC, I would put the odds that Jefferson would be back at greater than 70%. With Lindsey, I can't see Jefferson being back. I guess we'll see.

I would be shocked to not see at least one of them back. I can give pros and cons for both, but ultimately I think one of them is going to be back (and it will probably be Al).

[UteStar]

I would be shocked to not see at least one of them back. I can give pros and cons for both, but ultimately I think one of them is going to be back (and it will probably be Al).

This is gonna be an obviously huge decision for Lindsey. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. This is his chance to really affect the makeup of this team for years to come - by keeping or letting Al go. I think he is going to let him go based off his hints about the young guys. Hopefully if he keeps Al, it is at least somewhat reasonable which I doubt it would be because I think Al can get some big money on the market.

I initially thought Milsap would be back but I think he sees the writing on the wall and that his minutes won't be HUGE like he wants. Who knows. I can't wait to see how it all plays out though.