Lance Armstrong cheated per ex teammate

[TripletDaddy]

and an obvious push-off.

Those were different games.

[SteelBlue]

OK, I am going to be the first one to state the obvious. No way in hell Michael Jordan beats the Jazz with the flu unless he was doping.

I think the more likely explanation is that he didn't really have the flu. A jedi mind trick to ease pressure.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Those were different games.

In that game it was clear he drugged the refs. Crystal clear.

Just how deep does this thing go?

[myboynoah]

In that game it was clear he drugged the refs. Crystal clear.

Just how deep does this thing go?

Yeah, 3D's right. Wasn't the push-off game where Pippen had the bad back? More doping.

[creekster]

I simply dont understand what this is all about. What are you guys talking about here?

[myboynoah]

I simply dont understand what this is all about. What are you guys talking about here?

JL hijacked this thread.

[TripletDaddy]

I simply dont understand what this is all about. What are you guys talking about here?

Truthfully, I didn't get it either. I was simply pointing out that the flu game and push off game were two different games. I don't get the tangent or wha they are trying to say.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I simply dont understand what this is all about. What are you guys talking about here?

OMG. He drugged creekster too.

[myboynoah]

Team LA responds by defending Hincapie:

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=6575945"]Lance Armstrong camp refutes report on George Hincapie - ESPN[/ame]

"CBS has also attacked the reputation of George Hincapie," the statement said. "We are confident that the statements attributed to Hincapie are inaccurate and that the reports of his testimony are unreliable."

Hincapie provides a non-denial denial:

In response to the article, Hincapie said, "I have no idea where they got their information."

He added, "I can confirm to you I never spoke with '60 Minutes'."

[RC Vikings]

Viatcheslav Ekimov on Hamilton

Ekimov also called Hamilton’s allegations that he saw Lance Armstrong dope as “crazy.”

“Allegations? I cannot comment on that. This is just speaking. I find it crazy,” Ekimov said. “These guys, for some reason, get lost. How can you trust people who get lost? I cannot trust what they say. I have no idea why they do that. … Every day there are some reports. I don’t read the reports. I am sick of it.”

[ERCougar]

My neighbor who I ride with and is ironically a pharmacist has a hematocrit count of over 50. I keep thinking he should be better than he is.

Pharmacist who rides with RC....yeah, he's not cheating.

there are people over 50, but they're rare, and they really won't be any faster unless they're cheating to be there. I'm still pretty sure that the cutoff I read was 60 and nearly every cross country skier was pushing it. That's ridiculous.

Like creek said, the cutoff in cycling is probably lower. even at 50, there should only be a couple-not the entire group. If they monitor trends like he mentioned, that seems ok.

[scottie]

I"m convinced that Armstrong used EPO or testosterone or both before his cancer and perhaps I"m being a bit naive here but I still hold out hope that he won his 7 TDF clean. I hope it was because of him dropping weight, cutting edge training methods, being a super athlete and having an unmatched will to win were the reasons for his victories.

One thing I got from the Hamilton 60 Minutes thing was their team physicians' knowledge of testing thresholds; take enough EPO or testosterone to stay below the line. It kind of makes sense to me that that's just one of the things a pro team's physicians would be paid to do. When LA denies doping by focusing on, "I've never failed a drug test," that can be true but it doesn't mean he isn't doping.

Does "he won his 7 TDF clean" mean 100% dope free?

[RC Vikings]

One thing I got from the Hamilton 60 Minutes thing was their team physicians' knowledge of testing thresholds; take enough EPO or testosterone to stay below the line. It kind of makes sense to me that that's just one of the things a pro team's physicians would be paid to do. When LA denies doping by focusing on, "I've never failed a drug test," that can be true but it doesn't mean he isn't doping.

Does "he won his 7 TDF clean" mean 100% dope free?

I think most of them did an amazing job of keeping their hemo counts below 50. I think it was Creek that said you may get a few guys with counts that high but to have a whole peloton with counts in the upper 40's just wasn't natural.

[creekster]

Article about EPO, hematocrit and cycling. Note it refernces the UCI limit of 50.

http://tunedintocycling.wordpress.com/

[ERCougar]

The more I think about this stuff, the more I think that theres no difference between Lance doping without getting caught and Stockton's dirty screens (except that Stockton didn't win--I'll save the laker fans the obvious joke...)--in the words of Jim Rome, it's only cheating if you get caught. It's the responsibility of the respective organizations to set and enforce rules. It looks like lance is about to get caught so the point is somewhat moot, but I'm sure there are plenty of athletes on the record books who got away with stuff--where do you draw the line? We're already discounting Phelps just because he's too good? That doesn't seem fair to him.